Why the Washing Machine? The revolutions of social change

WEBVTT

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Hello, I’m Ben Diamond, inventor of consumer

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products, and in this podcast series, Why the

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Fork, we’re exploring products you touch every

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day but take for granted, and ask why great engineers

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and designers invented them, why they were inspired.

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why politics, economics and social change encourage

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them to find new solutions, and why the ones

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we’ve ended up with are only good enough. Plus,

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we’ll be hearing from the next generation of

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designers and engineers to see what’s the future.

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Will they evolve or disappear? This is a podcast

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by D2M Product Design, and I’ll be quizzing Phil

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Staunton, our design expert, later. Now you join

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me in a crisis. Our washing machine has broken.

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There’s water on the floor and a ton of washing

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to do. And as I sift through the pile to find

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something that’s clean enough to wear, it got

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me thinking. Why the fork? Why do we have washing

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machines? Who invented them? Where did they come

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from? Why are they not statues to the innovators

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and engineers that created them? Why the washing

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machine? Given its impact on the world and our

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wardrobes, you’d have thought the inventor of

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the washing machine would be as famous as Edison

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or Steve Jobs. But this simple machine has not

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been celebrated. In 2009, a publication associated

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with the Vatican described this machine as being

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the thing that emancipated more women than the

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pill. We hope they were kidding. It’s one of

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the most complex products we’re covering on our

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podcasts, but it has such a massive impact on

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our lives and on our society that we feel it

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deserves its own episode. Traditional washing

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of clothes was done by hand at streams, often

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as a group and in early cities in the Industrial

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Revolution in laundry houses, both for housewives

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to bring their laundry to and professional laundries

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for the upper classes and businesses. Washing

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was often done on a Monday as the air was cleaner

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from the smoke of the factories, having had Sunday

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off. It was an incredibly time -consuming task.

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For the earliest machines for washing, we need

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to go back to the 17th century. The first recorded

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machine is in 1677, where Sir John Hosking’s

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device was referred to in the diary of the famous

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scientist Robert Hooke. This was for a cord bag

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to wash ladies’ delicate fabrics. 1691, John

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Tzizak patents the first machine, and although

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we don’t really know what it was, it’s likely

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to involve the beating of laundry, which was

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commonly done either with wooden panels or on

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rocks to help move soap and water and remove

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stains. And it was aimed at an industrial process,

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nothing like our domestic machines. Then, in

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1752, we see in the Gentleman’s Magazine, the

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Yorkshire Maiden. Perhaps not the most politically

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correct name, but this wonderful innovation looks

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like the bottom half of a barrel with a lid on.

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You fill this with hot, soapy water, and then

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you put a dolly in, which is a bit like a broom

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with a three -legged milk stool on the end, through

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a hole in the lid. The tub’s walls have paddles

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of vertical slats of wood that, between them

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and the movement of the dolly, agitate the washing.

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This creates a turbulent wave -like flow to move

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the washing through the water and the soap through

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the fibres helping them to clean. It significantly

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sped up washing with multiple shirts at the same

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time using less water, less fuel and less effort.

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The Yorkshire Maiden was a transformation in

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our ability to wash and whose influence can still

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be seen in our top loader style machines today.

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But we have no idea who was the inventor of the

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original design. I suspect there were multiple

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people doing similar inventions, improving how

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tubs are used and taking existing products like

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the millstone and adapting it for this purpose.

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But then something very interesting happened.

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You see, good ideas while they travel. And the

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hero of our story is Jacob Christian Schaefer.

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Now, he’s a Bavarian German, a bit of a polymath,

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but basically a really cool scientist. And he

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took the Yorkshire Maiden, which had been improved

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slightly in places like Denmark, and he wrote

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about it in a pamphlet. That was then translated

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from German to French and eventually spread throughout

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the world. In fact, the reason we know about

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it is largely because of an Israeli archive from

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America. He said… How can we do laundry with

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no soap, no boiling water, no special heating,

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no wood nor fire, no washerwoman, no repeated

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soaking or even noticing that you’re doing laundry?

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What great Schaefer marketing. This is like the

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early social media gushing about this transformational

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device and he helped spread the ability of people

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to wash clothing throughout the world, whether

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he intended to or not. And we see the Yorkshire

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maiden. being used and adapted in different countries.

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It led to people like Henry Sidger in 1782 inventing

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better and improved versions based on butter

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churns that allowed the washing itself to be

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moved in multiple directions. And in 1790, Thomas

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Todd, an organ builder from Leeds, made a crank

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machine for washing by hand. And he and Edward

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Beetham is where we really start to see these

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machines taking off, with great marketing being

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done by Beetham and Todd. until they split up

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you know boy bands selling over a thousand portable

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washing meals in places as far as field as colchester

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yarmouth in ipswich he even got endorsement from

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captain cook for the navy so sounds like the

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washing machine was invented in yorkshire perfected

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in denmark talked about in germany in french

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and then shipped off to america And then the

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first patent in the US, five years later, was

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Nathaniel Briggs. But we don’t know much about

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this because the patent office burnt down 40

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years later, and with it, his drawings. James

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King and Hamilton Smith in the 1850s are widely

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regarded as the birth of the modern washing machine,

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with rotating drums and the beginning of heating.

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King’s had a horizontal rotating frame which

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sat over a pool of water heated by a coal fire.

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like our front loaders today. This used less

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water, heat and soap than the top loading style

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of the Yorkshire Maiden. By the end of the 1890s

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and the beginning of the 1900s, mechanised, mechanical

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versions of the previous machines were made.

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Now we can introduce a brand you have heard of,

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Millet, who have rotary drums with fires underneath

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that allows the cranking of washing and the heating

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of water at the same time. A massive step change.

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These industrialists and early brands could see

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how the mechanisation of industry, like weaving,

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could be applied to the domestic and labour -intensive

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world of laundry. They allowed washing of multiple

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shirts at the same time, speeding up the process

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and reducing the cost and amount of soap. But

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washing is such a big task that I suspect that

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our historic record is just a bit skewed. I think

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that the Yorkshire Maiden and many of the other

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early innovations happened simultaneously in

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many countries, and that if you dived into Denmark

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or Portugal or some of the other industrialising

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nations at the time, you’ll see early mechanised

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machinery in washing everywhere. Surprisingly,

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the Chinese, who are always very far ahead in

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many technologies, didn’t mechanise washing.

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That’s why Schaefer’s pamphlet is so important.

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It helps spread a great idea throughout the world.

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Without it, we wouldn’t have seen new designs.

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With this wonderful contraption, wouldn’t everyone

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have wanted to have one in our home? Well, no.

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Firstly, they’re expensive, the price of a modern

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car, and really designed for industrial -scale

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laundry, early wash houses. And here, the employees

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were, well, you guessed it, women. There were

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not many trades where women were allowed to work.

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But of course, these new machines needed less

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workers and could be operated by cheaper labour.

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That means children, who, you know, cost less

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and could easily be replaced when you broke them.

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Yeah. Now, there were no laundry riots, but like

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the demonstrations in the cotton trade, you might

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have heard of Peterloo, workers did not want

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these new machines. New innovation often puts

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existing skilled people out of work, just like

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our worries about AI today. Despite that resistance,

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These early machines significantly reduced the

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amount of time and increased the amount of washing

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that can be done. The first modern automatic

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washing machine designed specifically for the

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home was Alva J. Fisher’s Thor in 1907. An electric

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motor sits below a rotating drum, allowing you

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to fill that with hot water from your taps. Now

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there’s a few caveats to this. Those early electric

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motors weren’t insulated, which meant they blew

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up. And you needed to have both running water

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and an electrical supply, and in 1900 most homes

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didn’t have them. But the Depression and both

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the First and Second World Wars significantly

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reduced the demand and its development of domestic

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machinery. Unlike many other technologies, in

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warfare the humble washing machine was just not

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important as the world focused on fighting. But

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by the 1950s… Running water and electricity

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was in many people’s homes and it was now possible

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to have domestic washing machines. You know,

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the new RCA gives you two speeds as well as two

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adjustable time cycles. Just set the dial for

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normal wash and automatically you’ll get the

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right speed for sheets, towels, blue jeans and

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your everyday laundry. You just talk to a woman

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who uses an RCA, then see your RCA dealer. Ask

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him to show you the new two -speed RCA washer.

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Till then. a lot of the machine washing was done

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in laundries, sometimes co -located near swimming

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baths, built by councils to address hygiene and

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cholera and sharing hot water. This is really

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where the boom of the washer and the fridge and

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the other domestic appliances came from. But

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early machines weren’t necessarily fixed. To

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plumb them in, you would wheel them out and stick

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sucker hoses onto your taps in either a scullery

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or a kitchen. You would fill them and you’d have

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to manually turn the machines on and off. We’re

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often moving washing from the wash tub to a mangle

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to wring out. OK, now go and sit in front of

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your washing machine. In Europe, it will be a

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front loader, either in the bathroom or the kitchen,

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and they’re more common here. They’re more efficient,

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but have a longer wash cycle and are more expensive

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than the top loaders used in North America in

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dedicated laundry rooms. But they basically work

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the same. You can see the water filling in from

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the top mixed with the detergent. And, like Kings

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and Millais, the rotating drum turns washing

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clothes. You can see the panels, which work just

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like those in the Yorkshire Maiden, with its

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dolly agitating the clothes and getting the detergent

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into fibres and the dirt out into the water.

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The detergent is very clever, breaking down different

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types of stains with smart chemistry and holding

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it into the water. Unlike the old machines, these

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are really efficient. A very small amount of

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water, electrically heated in the base and sloshed

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around. No more massive filling of tubs. Like

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the Thor, the motor at the bottom drives the

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whole thing but these are more powerful and electronically

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controlled, measuring weight, spin speeds and

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time. And once drained, it’s rinsed several times.

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The last one with fabric conditioner that leaves

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your clothes fresh smelling and feeling soft

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before the very fast spin. This spinning creates

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a massive amount of force. So there’s a lump

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of concrete and a suspension system that keeps

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it all central and stops it walking across the

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room. Those 60s machines were renowned for starting

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one corner and walking over, pulling the hoses

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out with the water all over the floor. So why

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are there not statues to the great inventors

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of the washing machine? In fact, this machine

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is so neglected that when you visit the London

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Science Museum, where is the washing machine?

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Is it next to the steam engine or the Apollo

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capsule? No, it’s hidden in the basement next

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to the picnic tables. Probably one of the most

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important inventions in human history, and it

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has very little regard. It’s transformed people’s

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lives, but perhaps not in the way we really imagined.

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We’re still doing just as much time -consuming

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laundry. We’re just doing more of it. More colours,

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more materials, more material types. It has not

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truly freed us up. What the washing machine really

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has done is allowed us to wash more frequently.

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Instead of being restricted to a single wash

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day, we can do it more often. It may not have

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revolutionised who does the washing, but it’s

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revolutionised the fashion industry. And it is

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still way beyond automation. Every CES, there’ll

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be another robot promising to solve the laundry

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problem. But it’s an incredibly complex challenge

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to be able to handle t -shirts of different sizes

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and colours. I mean, I can’t even sort my kids’

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socks correctly, let alone what setting my delicate

00:13:58.440 –> 00:14:01.519
jumper needs to be on. So what might the future

00:14:01.519 –> 00:14:03.799
look like? There’s some exciting new technologies.

00:14:04.520 –> 00:14:07.740
Ultrasonics, plastic absorbing beads, microplastic

00:14:07.740 –> 00:14:11.320
filters, and my favourite, super critical carbon

00:14:11.320 –> 00:14:15.059
dioxide. Think dry ice instead of water. It can

00:14:15.059 –> 00:14:17.559
clean delicate garments, removing chemical stains

00:14:17.559 –> 00:14:20.659
without damaging it. And in our home, the best

00:14:20.659 –> 00:14:23.679
thing about it is that the wash comes out totally

00:14:23.679 –> 00:14:28.200
dry, halving the time to do laundry. These new

00:14:28.200 –> 00:14:31.220
step change technologies are expensive for a

00:14:31.220 –> 00:14:35.210
machine that only costs £500. And washers are

00:14:35.210 –> 00:14:38.190
normally an impulse purchase, only bought when,

00:14:38.370 –> 00:14:47.490
if like mine, they stop working. As for me, I

00:14:47.490 –> 00:14:49.789
don’t know what to do. Do I try and fix my broken

00:14:49.789 –> 00:14:52.649
machine myself? Or do I call someone out? Or

00:14:52.649 –> 00:14:55.929
just buy a new one? Either way, the washing machine

00:14:55.929 –> 00:14:57.850
doesn’t deserve to be hidden in the basement

00:14:57.850 –> 00:15:00.309
of the science museum. It’s such an important

00:15:00.309 –> 00:15:02.889
part of our lives that it should be lauded for

00:15:02.889 –> 00:15:06.299
its impact. There are no statues to the inventors,

00:15:06.379 –> 00:15:10.240
because so many of them contributed. This was

00:15:10.240 –> 00:15:12.899
not an overnight revolution, but incremental

00:15:12.899 –> 00:15:17.200
changes over 350 years to the tools available

00:15:17.200 –> 00:15:20.240
at the time, from butter churns to electric motors,

00:15:20.460 –> 00:15:23.759
and great influencers like Schaeffer, or the

00:15:23.759 –> 00:15:26.500
sexist adverts of the 50s, showing how it would

00:15:26.500 –> 00:15:30.039
improve our lives. It hasn’t freed up women.

00:15:30.539 –> 00:15:33.320
but has transformed family life allowing us to

00:15:33.320 –> 00:15:37.100
be more hygienic and wear more beautiful clothes.

00:15:40.840 –> 00:15:43.259
Now I’d like to bring in Phil Staunton, our design

00:15:43.259 –> 00:15:46.519
expert from D2M. Phil, what did you think about

00:15:46.519 –> 00:15:49.580
our story today? Fantastic story. Fascinating

00:15:49.580 –> 00:15:52.679
as ever. Can’t believe that Yorkshire is in there

00:15:52.679 –> 00:15:57.100
again as the home of invention. I’m not biased.

00:15:57.139 –> 00:15:59.600
I’m not biased. Guys, I’m originally from London.

00:15:59.639 –> 00:16:02.960
I’m only pretending to live in Yorkshire. Share

00:16:02.960 –> 00:16:05.240
with the listeners how we choose these topics

00:16:05.240 –> 00:16:07.799
for these podcasts and which kind of products

00:16:07.799 –> 00:16:09.769
we’re going to look at. You know, obviously,

00:16:09.809 –> 00:16:11.009
one of the criteria is it’s got to be something

00:16:11.009 –> 00:16:13.210
that generally most people touch every day, right?

00:16:14.009 –> 00:16:16.370
I’m just wondering if there’s behind the scenes,

00:16:16.429 –> 00:16:18.809
you have a criteria of if it was invented by

00:16:18.809 –> 00:16:21.129
a Yorkshire person, then it goes right up the

00:16:21.129 –> 00:16:23.110
list. It says we’ve got to do that one. I’m just

00:16:23.110 –> 00:16:24.490
trying to belong. I’m just trying to belong.

00:16:24.590 –> 00:16:26.889
But you’re right. Like, what is surprising is

00:16:26.889 –> 00:16:29.350
where these innovations are coming from. And

00:16:29.350 –> 00:16:31.909
we didn’t know when we set out to the washing

00:16:31.909 –> 00:16:33.129
machine or the hair straightener, the other one

00:16:33.129 –> 00:16:36.549
that kind of was invented around here, as to

00:16:36.549 –> 00:16:39.120
where they came from. I think there’s an inherent

00:16:39.120 –> 00:16:41.519
bias in the stories that we’re picking up. I

00:16:41.519 –> 00:16:43.059
think we’re mainly picking up things that developed

00:16:43.059 –> 00:16:45.539
in the West, partly because of the patent literature.

00:16:45.779 –> 00:16:47.120
I think that’s true. And I think with the washing

00:16:47.120 –> 00:16:49.299
machine especially, the fact that the Yorkshire

00:16:49.299 –> 00:16:51.360
Maidens is famous isn’t because it was the first

00:16:51.360 –> 00:16:53.019
washing machine. It was just it was the first

00:16:53.019 –> 00:16:55.679
one to be talked about, in this case by Schaeffer.

00:16:56.240 –> 00:16:59.840
And that’s why it’s well known. I suspect it

00:16:59.840 –> 00:17:01.480
was invented in lots of different places. And

00:17:01.480 –> 00:17:03.120
you’ll hear in the toothbrush, you know, it’s

00:17:03.120 –> 00:17:04.619
invented in loads of different places around

00:17:04.619 –> 00:17:07.220
the world. It’s just who had the first patent?

00:17:07.240 –> 00:17:09.759
seems to be the one that becomes the the inventor

00:17:09.759 –> 00:17:12.660
so there’s no bias guys i promise i promise i’ll

00:17:12.660 –> 00:17:16.160
just make sure yeah one of the other things that

00:17:16.160 –> 00:17:18.960
jumped out at me is that a lot of these inventions

00:17:18.960 –> 00:17:22.359
they don’t really happen until like the 1900s

00:17:22.359 –> 00:17:25.200
when like educated middle classes or trades people

00:17:25.200 –> 00:17:29.299
are doing the task and therefore start inventing

00:17:29.299 –> 00:17:31.920
something to kind of make it easier But obviously

00:17:31.920 –> 00:17:34.200
with this one, actually, it started way before

00:17:34.200 –> 00:17:36.440
that. There’s quite a lot of development, even

00:17:36.440 –> 00:17:38.960
though one suspects most of the people doing

00:17:38.960 –> 00:17:43.180
the washing were actually servants and that type

00:17:43.180 –> 00:17:44.680
of thing who kind of weren’t educated. I wonder

00:17:44.680 –> 00:17:47.019
if you had a view on why the washing machine

00:17:47.019 –> 00:17:49.720
particularly was actually kind of invented quite

00:17:49.720 –> 00:17:52.559
a lot earlier. Yeah, I think this is a fascinating

00:17:52.559 –> 00:17:55.559
question. And I think this ties into the early

00:17:55.559 –> 00:17:58.500
Industrial Revolution. So I think… wash houses

00:17:58.500 –> 00:18:00.960
were factories you need to think of as factories

00:18:00.960 –> 00:18:03.559
and if you go to a modern commercial laundry

00:18:03.559 –> 00:18:06.599
they run like a factory so the industrials at

00:18:06.599 –> 00:18:08.779
the time saw it in the same way that people were

00:18:08.779 –> 00:18:11.920
seeing coal mining or steel making or cotton

00:18:11.920 –> 00:18:14.259
development they saw it as an opportunity to

00:18:15.950 –> 00:18:18.269
mechanize, industrialize, and make the process

00:18:18.269 –> 00:18:20.829
cheaper and more efficient. I don’t think they

00:18:20.829 –> 00:18:23.450
ever saw it as a way to emancipate women. They

00:18:23.450 –> 00:18:25.450
certainly didn’t see it as a domestic washing

00:18:25.450 –> 00:18:27.089
machine in everyone’s home. It’s a bit like,

00:18:27.109 –> 00:18:29.329
you know, the computer, you know, the REM quote

00:18:29.329 –> 00:18:32.029
where there’s maybe a market for five computers

00:18:32.029 –> 00:18:34.190
in the world. They saw it as an industrial machine.

00:18:34.289 –> 00:18:35.950
They didn’t see it as, you know, having one in

00:18:35.950 –> 00:18:38.309
your pocket as you do today. And that, I think,

00:18:38.309 –> 00:18:40.529
is the real hit. It’s also, I think, where there

00:18:40.529 –> 00:18:42.450
was some resistance, you know. You’re coming

00:18:42.450 –> 00:18:44.609
in here with this newfangled AI technology and

00:18:44.609 –> 00:18:47.309
taking our jobs and particularly jobs from women

00:18:47.309 –> 00:18:49.430
where there isn’t many opportunity to do to work.

00:18:49.589 –> 00:18:51.470
And that’s why it’s such an interesting story.

00:18:51.630 –> 00:18:54.269
It’s not it’s not a case of somebody sat down

00:18:54.269 –> 00:18:56.410
and said, let’s invent a domestic washing machine

00:18:56.410 –> 00:18:59.269
that’s going to mean that housewives in the 1960s

00:18:59.269 –> 00:19:00.950
can suddenly read books instead of doing their

00:19:00.950 –> 00:19:03.480
laundry. that kind of came across i think and

00:19:03.480 –> 00:19:05.140
and as you say there was something like a tin

00:19:05.140 –> 00:19:07.519
opener there’s no kind of factories of people

00:19:07.519 –> 00:19:10.019
opening cans there’s no kind of factory owner

00:19:10.019 –> 00:19:12.240
going how do we make this more efficient because

00:19:12.240 –> 00:19:14.680
there were those industrial wash houses then

00:19:14.680 –> 00:19:17.160
people were going uh heck how can i employ half

00:19:17.160 –> 00:19:18.859
a number of people and still wash twice as many

00:19:18.859 –> 00:19:21.160
clothes so i guess that’s the kind of key difference

00:19:21.160 –> 00:19:24.210
isn’t it industrial application exactly but i

00:19:24.210 –> 00:19:26.589
loved your point about the education so the people

00:19:26.589 –> 00:19:28.890
doing these mundane tasks and we’re picking mundane

00:19:28.890 –> 00:19:30.690
products remember in this podcast like why the

00:19:30.690 –> 00:19:33.029
fork is all about the everyday products they’re

00:19:33.029 –> 00:19:35.930
not necessarily people until very recently who

00:19:35.930 –> 00:19:37.750
could do the inventive step they didn’t know

00:19:37.750 –> 00:19:39.690
how to do it they haven’t got access to capital

00:19:39.690 –> 00:19:42.549
they might not have had the education and and

00:19:42.549 –> 00:19:45.049
that’s definitely very true but i think that’s

00:19:45.049 –> 00:19:47.000
why it’s designers and engineers we’ve got to

00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.920
always be looking for those cool new problems

00:19:48.920 –> 00:19:50.920
people aren’t going to come up to you and say

00:19:50.920 –> 00:19:52.880
by the way i’ve got a problem in opening my tin

00:19:52.880 –> 00:19:55.319
can or you know what would be great is the ability

00:19:55.319 –> 00:19:58.000
to sort socks every day you know um it’s our

00:19:58.000 –> 00:20:01.759
jobs to kind of ask these awkward questions and

00:20:01.759 –> 00:20:04.559
find out, you know, and then invent this solution,

00:20:04.680 –> 00:20:06.900
I think. So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That’s where

00:20:06.900 –> 00:20:08.420
kind of like quite a lot of the market research

00:20:08.420 –> 00:20:11.680
and consumer insight stuff comes in. And I’m

00:20:11.680 –> 00:20:13.599
always surprised, but probably shouldn’t be quite

00:20:13.599 –> 00:20:15.420
how much particularly large organizations pay

00:20:15.420 –> 00:20:17.500
for market insight. But actually, that’s the

00:20:17.500 –> 00:20:19.960
key thing, right? If you’ve got a genuine need

00:20:19.960 –> 00:20:21.539
that everyone wants to solve and is prepared

00:20:21.539 –> 00:20:23.880
to spend money, and that’s the critical bit,

00:20:24.019 –> 00:20:27.299
prepared to spend money to solve, then there’s

00:20:27.299 –> 00:20:28.920
a fantastic business opportunity there. You can

00:20:28.920 –> 00:20:30.420
get ahead of your competitors. You can create

00:20:30.420 –> 00:20:32.359
a new category and all that kind of stuff. But

00:20:32.359 –> 00:20:34.420
again, quite a lot of the clients who come to

00:20:34.420 –> 00:20:37.200
us, I guess, don’t really realize that. They

00:20:37.200 –> 00:20:38.880
don’t realize that they need to be solving a

00:20:38.880 –> 00:20:41.140
genuine need that people are prepared to pay

00:20:41.140 –> 00:20:45.130
for a solution. It always surprises me how few

00:20:45.130 –> 00:20:47.210
companies talk to their actual consumer. So whatever

00:20:47.210 –> 00:20:50.109
your industry is, have you spoken to the person

00:20:50.109 –> 00:20:52.049
who’s going to be using your product or the person

00:20:52.049 –> 00:20:54.349
who’s got the problem? And it doesn’t have to

00:20:54.349 –> 00:20:56.289
be massive market research like the big companies

00:20:56.289 –> 00:20:59.130
do. It can be, have you asked your mates? I’ve

00:20:59.130 –> 00:21:01.130
got on my phone, because I’m quite fascinated

00:21:01.130 –> 00:21:03.230
by laundry, like a little discussion guide, I

00:21:03.230 –> 00:21:04.930
ask people about their washing. And it’s quite

00:21:04.930 –> 00:21:07.670
surprising what people will tell you about who

00:21:07.670 –> 00:21:09.569
does the washing in their family, how much they

00:21:09.569 –> 00:21:13.440
do, how often they do it. wash your pyjamas every

00:21:13.440 –> 00:21:16.299
day and i mean like that came out of just talking

00:21:16.299 –> 00:21:19.039
with friends no he’s i don’t but i have families

00:21:19.039 –> 00:21:23.000
who do and i think that don’t be afraid of asking

00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:25.809
your consumer or your customer Buy them a cup

00:21:25.809 –> 00:21:27.589
of tea or an Amazon voucher or pay them or it

00:21:27.589 –> 00:21:29.710
doesn’t matter. It’s such an important thing

00:21:29.710 –> 00:21:32.089
to do before you kind of come up with an invention.

00:21:32.470 –> 00:21:34.269
And the other thing we suggest is look at the

00:21:34.269 –> 00:21:36.369
reviews of your competitor products or look at

00:21:36.369 –> 00:21:38.990
the reviews of the closest thing that might vaguely

00:21:38.990 –> 00:21:41.589
solve the problem. See what everyone’s saying,

00:21:41.690 –> 00:21:43.390
what’s good and what’s bad about those kind of

00:21:43.390 –> 00:21:46.779
solutions. Interestingly, we had a… a particular

00:21:46.779 –> 00:21:49.140
client in the sports and leisure sector i won’t

00:21:49.140 –> 00:21:52.579
go any more matters we fairly obviously and the

00:21:52.579 –> 00:21:54.900
md basically said to us you know i would talk

00:21:54.900 –> 00:21:56.640
to our customers about this new product that

00:21:56.640 –> 00:21:58.660
we’re investing half a million pounds in in terms

00:21:58.660 –> 00:22:00.420
of the tooling and the development and the marketing

00:22:00.420 –> 00:22:02.740
and the launch i know what i like my customers

00:22:02.740 –> 00:22:05.119
always bought what i like previously i like black

00:22:05.119 –> 00:22:07.400
and red make it black and red but this is the

00:22:07.400 –> 00:22:09.640
thing don’t you mustn’t design for yourself like

00:22:09.640 –> 00:22:12.630
you know you and i have both designed for hundreds

00:22:12.630 –> 00:22:15.430
of different people and yeah you know a middle

00:22:15.430 –> 00:22:18.109
-aged middle -class slightly geeky you know products

00:22:18.109 –> 00:22:20.349
it’s a tiny market you want to be designing for

00:22:20.349 –> 00:22:22.329
people that you’re not and if it’s not whether

00:22:22.329 –> 00:22:23.890
you like the product it’s whether your customer

00:22:23.890 –> 00:22:25.549
and consumer likes the product that’s absolutely

00:22:25.549 –> 00:22:28.029
yeah that’s the thing and this guy even being

00:22:28.029 –> 00:22:29.930
you know ceo of a successful company having sold

00:22:29.930 –> 00:22:32.529
tens of thousands of products the point is Yeah,

00:22:32.549 –> 00:22:34.450
but how many more would you have sold if you

00:22:34.450 –> 00:22:37.130
didn’t just design it for yourself? And actually,

00:22:37.190 –> 00:22:40.150
the important person here is who hasn’t bought

00:22:40.150 –> 00:22:42.589
your product because they didn’t like it, not

00:22:42.589 –> 00:22:46.029
who has because they like what you like. With

00:22:46.029 –> 00:22:49.130
something as complex as the washing process,

00:22:49.289 –> 00:22:50.849
and washing machines are only like a small part

00:22:50.849 –> 00:22:53.750
of this, how would you approach… trying to

00:22:53.750 –> 00:22:56.109
make it better for families. And we’re going

00:22:56.109 –> 00:22:57.430
to talk later about people who don’t even have

00:22:57.430 –> 00:22:59.990
access to clean water and washing machines themselves.

00:23:00.190 –> 00:23:02.250
How do you approach it from a design point of

00:23:02.250 –> 00:23:04.250
view? There’s lots of things, really. One is

00:23:04.250 –> 00:23:06.029
exactly that, trying to discover what the genuine

00:23:06.029 –> 00:23:09.230
real need is. In this case, it’s pretty obvious,

00:23:09.250 –> 00:23:11.309
right? It’s lost productivity. No one really

00:23:11.309 –> 00:23:15.690
likes washing. So clearly there’s a genuine need

00:23:15.690 –> 00:23:18.430
there. I think the commercial viability comes

00:23:18.430 –> 00:23:21.269
in really early on. And actually, I think you

00:23:21.269 –> 00:23:23.089
kind of touched on that to a degree, and we probably

00:23:23.089 –> 00:23:24.529
will kind of going forward to talk about the

00:23:24.529 –> 00:23:27.990
future of it. There are solutions that, you know,

00:23:27.990 –> 00:23:30.349
with kind of AI sorting socks or whatever it

00:23:30.349 –> 00:23:33.829
is, robots doing the laundry, but they’re not

00:23:33.829 –> 00:23:35.410
in everyone’s home because they’re just way too

00:23:35.410 –> 00:23:37.809
expensive for most people to actually afford.

00:23:38.390 –> 00:23:40.970
And one of my real bugbears as a design agency

00:23:40.970 –> 00:23:42.829
owner is when people come to us with a solution

00:23:42.829 –> 00:23:45.089
that’s being developed by another design house,

00:23:45.210 –> 00:23:47.710
and I take one look at it and I go, this is going

00:23:47.710 –> 00:23:49.740
to cost. 50 quid to make, you have to sell it

00:23:49.740 –> 00:23:52.599
for 250 pounds, and the maximum price anyone’s

00:23:52.599 –> 00:23:55.220
going to pay for it is more like 100. Now, I

00:23:55.220 –> 00:23:57.059
made some assumptions there, and obviously the

00:23:57.059 –> 00:23:58.720
person’s free to go and test those assumptions.

00:23:59.400 –> 00:24:02.019
But the point is, really, this kind of designer,

00:24:02.039 –> 00:24:04.019
let’s make an amazing -looking concept. Oh, wouldn’t

00:24:04.019 –> 00:24:06.140
it be great if it had titanium detailing and

00:24:06.140 –> 00:24:08.420
all this kind of thing? It’s got to be commercially

00:24:08.420 –> 00:24:10.880
viable. Otherwise, all you’re doing is wasting

00:24:10.880 –> 00:24:13.500
the poor client’s money. It really surprised

00:24:13.500 –> 00:24:15.920
me, actually, having been inside my washing machine

00:24:15.920 –> 00:24:18.819
quite a bit recently, how much technology is

00:24:18.819 –> 00:24:21.640
in that machine. And it’s only £500, I mean,

00:24:21.700 –> 00:24:22.960
that’s a lot of money, but you compare it to

00:24:22.960 –> 00:24:26.160
a car, a house, or a plane. So being able to

00:24:26.160 –> 00:24:28.900
innovate that next jump is going to be… really

00:24:28.900 –> 00:24:31.079
challenging for any piece of new technology.

00:24:31.500 –> 00:24:33.740
Why do you think though that some industries,

00:24:33.839 –> 00:24:35.940
and we talked previously about the hair straighteners,

00:24:36.000 –> 00:24:39.259
have been able to do a massive price jump and

00:24:39.259 –> 00:24:40.799
been able to put that technology on? What is

00:24:40.799 –> 00:24:43.180
it that’s enabled them to kind of do that jump?

00:24:43.380 –> 00:24:44.839
I think the hair straightener is a slightly different

00:24:44.839 –> 00:24:48.359
case because it’s a brand new product category

00:24:48.359 –> 00:24:50.799
and people haven’t got a price expectation of

00:24:50.799 –> 00:24:52.900
what they should be paying for it. And I think

00:24:52.900 –> 00:24:54.819
it was a lot harder in washing machines because,

00:24:54.920 –> 00:24:56.759
you know, a lot of people think like, well, I

00:24:56.759 –> 00:24:58.160
only pay £200 for a washing machine. I only pay

00:24:58.160 –> 00:25:00.099
£500 for a washing machine. So if you suddenly

00:25:00.099 –> 00:25:01.440
bring a whole load of technology and it’s £2

00:25:01.440 –> 00:25:03.940
,000, they don’t even look at it. It’s not about,

00:25:04.039 –> 00:25:06.160
is that technology great? It’s like, that’s out

00:25:06.160 –> 00:25:08.400
of my price graph degree, you know, and it doesn’t

00:25:08.400 –> 00:25:09.900
even come up in the filters they’re putting into

00:25:09.900 –> 00:25:11.960
the website or anything else. Whereas the hair

00:25:11.960 –> 00:25:13.599
straighteners, you know, you didn’t have that

00:25:13.599 –> 00:25:16.039
because no one knew what to spend on it. And

00:25:16.039 –> 00:25:17.880
I think also with the hair straighteners, it

00:25:17.880 –> 00:25:19.900
kind of comes back to that. rachel from friends

00:25:19.900 –> 00:25:22.579
point right you know you suddenly got this massive

00:25:22.579 –> 00:25:25.240
outside influence and people going i want to

00:25:25.240 –> 00:25:28.079
look like that i don’t really mind how it what

00:25:28.079 –> 00:25:30.579
it’s going to cost me but with the washing machine

00:25:30.579 –> 00:25:32.440
it’s very different i think it’s like my current

00:25:32.440 –> 00:25:35.039
washing machine is broken what you know almost

00:25:35.039 –> 00:25:39.019
what can i afford what’s available now and what

00:25:39.019 –> 00:25:41.890
can i afford It’s not that kind of aspirational

00:25:41.890 –> 00:25:44.170
purchase in the same way that something like

00:25:44.170 –> 00:25:46.910
a hair straightener is. So now we’d love to talk

00:25:46.910 –> 00:25:48.410
more about the future of the washing machine.

00:25:48.490 –> 00:25:50.950
And it’s a real privilege to introduce Laura

00:25:50.950 –> 00:25:53.410
Tuck, who’s the R &D lead from the Washing Machine

00:25:53.410 –> 00:25:56.630
Project. Hello, Laura. Hi, Laura. Hi, great to

00:25:56.630 –> 00:25:59.069
be here. Welcome to Why the Fork. First, tell

00:25:59.069 –> 00:26:01.690
me a little bit about yourself. You are an engineer,

00:26:01.809 –> 00:26:05.079
so you’re qualified to be here. Indeed I am,

00:26:05.079 –> 00:26:07.480
yeah. So I’m currently R &D lead at the Washington

00:26:07.480 –> 00:26:10.099
Machine Project, as you mentioned, but my background

00:26:10.099 –> 00:26:12.220
is actually in manufacturing engineering. It’s

00:26:12.220 –> 00:26:14.359
what I studied at university and what really

00:26:14.359 –> 00:26:16.299
got me into the engineering industry, a real

00:26:16.299 –> 00:26:18.539
passion for how things are made. Tell me, the

00:26:18.539 –> 00:26:20.339
Washington Machine Project is something particularly

00:26:20.339 –> 00:26:23.200
special and I’m genuinely thrilled that you could

00:26:23.200 –> 00:26:25.519
join us today. Tell us a little bit about it,

00:26:25.559 –> 00:26:28.220
where it originated and the impact it’s having

00:26:28.220 –> 00:26:30.880
throughout the world today. Yeah, so the washing

00:26:30.880 –> 00:26:33.299
machine project is set up to alleviate the burden

00:26:33.299 –> 00:26:35.640
of hand washing clothes. So there’s definitely

00:26:35.640 –> 00:26:38.220
a perception in places like the UK that everyone

00:26:38.220 –> 00:26:40.380
has a washing machine. That’s just how it’s done.

00:26:40.480 –> 00:26:42.880
But that’s actually a very privileged minority

00:26:42.880 –> 00:26:45.980
of people have access to a washing machine. About

00:26:45.980 –> 00:26:48.579
60 % of the world’s population, 5 billion people

00:26:48.579 –> 00:26:52.160
still. wash clothes by hand. And that’s a really

00:26:52.160 –> 00:26:55.359
labour intensive, painful, difficult task that

00:26:55.359 –> 00:26:58.339
predominantly falls on women and children. So

00:26:58.339 –> 00:27:00.720
we’ve designed a manual washing machine that

00:27:00.720 –> 00:27:04.119
uses no electricity or water to enable people

00:27:04.119 –> 00:27:07.359
in lower income communities to access washing

00:27:07.359 –> 00:27:09.259
machines and have some of those same opportunities

00:27:09.259 –> 00:27:12.019
with the time that it frees up, as we do here

00:27:12.019 –> 00:27:14.630
in the UK. One of the things I noticed about

00:27:14.630 –> 00:27:17.130
the Dewey washing machine is that the original

00:27:17.130 –> 00:27:18.990
design, some of the early designs had cogs and

00:27:18.990 –> 00:27:21.250
gears and they were quite complex. And then in

00:27:21.250 –> 00:27:22.930
the latest version, you’ve stripped them right

00:27:22.930 –> 00:27:25.549
out and it’s a flat pack product. It’s very simple.

00:27:25.609 –> 00:27:27.970
It can be built without any tools. Why did you

00:27:27.970 –> 00:27:30.150
decide to do that? What’s the advantages for

00:27:30.150 –> 00:27:32.170
that, both for you guys and obviously for the

00:27:32.170 –> 00:27:35.329
end user? Yeah so when I first joined the company

00:27:35.329 –> 00:27:37.490
three years ago we had a predominantly plastic

00:27:37.490 –> 00:27:40.930
design and we built 30 of that design to trial

00:27:40.930 –> 00:27:43.309
in Uganda and I actually took them to the end

00:27:43.309 –> 00:27:48.180
location and that really hit home why it wasn’t

00:27:48.180 –> 00:27:51.140
the right design for our users. So in order to

00:27:51.140 –> 00:27:53.180
get there, we kind of had to fly to Kampala,

00:27:53.319 –> 00:27:56.940
travel for multiple hours down to Lake Victoria,

00:27:57.039 –> 00:27:58.720
and then we were on a fishing boat for about

00:27:58.720 –> 00:28:01.380
four hours trying to get these machines to an

00:28:01.380 –> 00:28:03.519
island where we then didn’t have electricity,

00:28:03.759 –> 00:28:06.400
didn’t have phone signal, and we dropped off

00:28:06.400 –> 00:28:09.440
this plastic product. And it was big, wasn’t

00:28:09.440 –> 00:28:12.519
it? The original one was the size of a domestic

00:28:12.519 –> 00:28:13.880
washing machine at home. So you’re trying to

00:28:13.880 –> 00:28:17.200
do this on… trucks and carts in hand luggage

00:28:17.200 –> 00:28:19.720
it’s not oh yeah we saw people trying to get

00:28:19.720 –> 00:28:22.059
them on on the back of tuk -tuks and motorbikes

00:28:22.059 –> 00:28:25.640
and and all of that kind of stuff so it really

00:28:25.640 –> 00:28:28.940
brought home the challenge with maintenance and

00:28:28.940 –> 00:28:31.119
repairability as well so it’s not just getting

00:28:31.119 –> 00:28:33.900
them to the end location in transit one of those

00:28:33.900 –> 00:28:36.160
machines that the catch had broken it was a 3d

00:28:36.160 –> 00:28:40.819
printed part and couldn’t repair it no 3d printers

00:28:40.819 –> 00:28:44.599
in access to a 3d printer we couldn’t get royal

00:28:44.599 –> 00:28:47.519
mail to drop anything off there wasn’t you know

00:28:47.519 –> 00:28:50.700
a postal service that was running daily so we

00:28:50.700 –> 00:28:54.400
really looked into what skills existed in those

00:28:54.400 –> 00:28:56.660
communities and there was a lot of ability with

00:28:56.660 –> 00:28:59.480
metalwork so we decided to move to a metal machine

00:28:59.480 –> 00:29:01.970
because then if anything does break They have

00:29:01.970 –> 00:29:04.569
the skills and resources to be able to rework

00:29:04.569 –> 00:29:07.109
the metal components, unlike when things are,

00:29:07.150 –> 00:29:09.210
you know, tooled out of plastic or 3D printed.

00:29:09.589 –> 00:29:11.869
And we decided to make it fully disassemblable.

00:29:11.970 –> 00:29:13.569
So with a set of spanners and a set of allen

00:29:13.569 –> 00:29:16.119
keys, you can take it all apart. which means

00:29:16.119 –> 00:29:18.259
it can be maintained through life. But also then

00:29:18.259 –> 00:29:20.140
at end of life, you’ve got a load of flat metal

00:29:20.140 –> 00:29:22.599
sheets that can be made into whatever you have

00:29:22.599 –> 00:29:25.299
the skills to repurpose it into. So Laura, can

00:29:25.299 –> 00:29:28.660
you just explain for everyone how it works if

00:29:28.660 –> 00:29:30.740
there isn’t any electricity? Did you say it doesn’t

00:29:30.740 –> 00:29:34.579
use any water either? It does use water, but

00:29:34.579 –> 00:29:36.299
it uses about half the water of hand washing

00:29:36.299 –> 00:29:39.400
clothes. So it works very similarly to the washing

00:29:39.400 –> 00:29:41.579
machine you may have at home if you’ve got a

00:29:41.579 –> 00:29:45.319
front loader. So it’s a drum. within a tub but

00:29:45.319 –> 00:29:47.640
instead of having a motor that turns it we have

00:29:47.640 –> 00:29:50.920
a direct drive hand crank so you just spin it

00:29:50.920 –> 00:29:53.720
and then leave it to soak and spin it again so

00:29:53.720 –> 00:29:57.500
our wash cycle the standard cycle is 30 minutes

00:29:57.500 –> 00:29:59.579
long but you’re only actually turning the handle

00:29:59.579 –> 00:30:03.079
for six minutes we really utilize the soaking

00:30:03.079 –> 00:30:05.140
time to try and remove some of the tougher stains

00:30:05.140 –> 00:30:08.619
but it just works like a standard front loader

00:30:08.619 –> 00:30:10.759
moves the clothes around to create that mechanical

00:30:10.759 –> 00:30:13.529
agitation which helps clean the clothes And does

00:30:13.529 –> 00:30:16.970
it use detergent? It does, yeah. But that’s a

00:30:16.970 –> 00:30:18.789
big design challenge for us, actually, because

00:30:18.789 –> 00:30:20.549
there’s so many types of detergent around the

00:30:20.549 –> 00:30:22.930
world. What’s very common in some of our locations

00:30:22.930 –> 00:30:26.059
is hand wash powder. which actually behaves quite

00:30:26.059 –> 00:30:28.059
differently to the kind of powder you’d put in

00:30:28.059 –> 00:30:29.900
a washing machine because it’s used to different

00:30:29.900 –> 00:30:32.359
agitation styles. But we also get people who

00:30:32.359 –> 00:30:34.960
hand make their own soap. We have people who

00:30:34.960 –> 00:30:37.359
use bar soap. We have people using liquid detergent.

00:30:37.480 –> 00:30:39.640
So we’ve really had to think about the design

00:30:39.640 –> 00:30:42.539
to work with whatever can be accessed in some

00:30:42.539 –> 00:30:44.339
of these remote locations where there isn’t an

00:30:44.339 –> 00:30:47.240
alternative option. Is there a market for it

00:30:47.240 –> 00:30:49.960
in the Western world? It’s just I’m looking into

00:30:49.960 –> 00:30:51.900
quite a lot of sustainable housing projects,

00:30:52.079 –> 00:30:54.799
particularly in Wales and places like that. where

00:30:54.799 –> 00:30:56.839
people are actually trying to live off grid or

00:30:56.839 –> 00:30:59.640
live with much lower carbon footprint and that

00:30:59.640 –> 00:31:02.599
type of thing. So is that a potential or is it

00:31:02.599 –> 00:31:06.089
really just aimed at developing countries? We

00:31:06.089 –> 00:31:09.650
do get requests from places like the UK, the

00:31:09.650 –> 00:31:12.450
US, Europe, for people who are aiming for that

00:31:12.450 –> 00:31:14.829
kind of off -grid lifestyle, or even just trying

00:31:14.829 –> 00:31:17.369
to reduce their electricity bills. And there

00:31:17.369 –> 00:31:20.390
is a market of people that design manual washing

00:31:20.390 –> 00:31:24.089
machines for backpackers or van lifers, but they’re

00:31:24.089 –> 00:31:27.640
usually much smaller capacity. Our priority is

00:31:27.640 –> 00:31:29.420
really the people who don’t have the option of

00:31:29.420 –> 00:31:31.220
using electricity. So it’s not something we’ve

00:31:31.220 –> 00:31:33.420
explored in great detail, but we have had some

00:31:33.420 –> 00:31:35.180
trials in the UK and there’s definitely appetite.

00:31:35.519 –> 00:31:37.539
I wonder what we can learn though from your design.

00:31:37.660 –> 00:31:39.680
So the fact that you’ve chosen to have every

00:31:39.680 –> 00:31:42.619
component disassemblable by the end user and

00:31:42.619 –> 00:31:45.359
then… recycled into other things at the end

00:31:45.359 –> 00:31:48.420
of its life whereas if i think my washing machine

00:31:48.420 –> 00:31:50.440
i had to take apart with a torque screwdriver

00:31:50.440 –> 00:31:53.400
and you know it was 500 pounds worth of parts

00:31:53.400 –> 00:31:55.619
for the sake of a what turned out to be a tiny

00:31:55.619 –> 00:31:57.900
plastic component are there things that you guys

00:31:57.900 –> 00:32:01.019
can teach designers like phil so that when we’re

00:32:01.019 –> 00:32:04.019
thinking about future projects or future products

00:32:04.019 –> 00:32:06.819
we consider the full life cycle much much and

00:32:06.819 –> 00:32:10.220
repairability much easier i do think there’s

00:32:10.220 –> 00:32:13.200
some relatively obvious things that we’ve done

00:32:13.200 –> 00:32:15.119
it’s not really reinventing the wheel but the

00:32:15.119 –> 00:32:17.059
large majority of things we’ve done are an m6

00:32:17.059 –> 00:32:19.099
so you give someone one spanner and suddenly

00:32:19.099 –> 00:32:21.099
they can access almost all parts of the machine

00:32:21.099 –> 00:32:24.099
which isn’t reinventing the wheel but a lot of

00:32:24.099 –> 00:32:26.880
what we’ve done is be context considerate so

00:32:26.880 –> 00:32:29.599
things like the using the stainless steel is

00:32:29.599 –> 00:32:31.339
because of the metalwork that we were seeing

00:32:31.339 –> 00:32:33.859
that was prevalent in those locations. When we’re

00:32:33.859 –> 00:32:36.299
talking about places like the UK, the recycling

00:32:36.299 –> 00:32:38.579
infrastructure is completely different. So the

00:32:38.579 –> 00:32:41.000
optimal solution might be something where it

00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:43.200
makes more sense for it to end up at a factory

00:32:43.200 –> 00:32:47.079
or a recycling centre. But I do think that careful

00:32:47.079 –> 00:32:50.440
consideration of the context around it is very

00:32:50.440 –> 00:32:52.460
important. If you’re designing for somewhere

00:32:52.460 –> 00:32:54.220
like the UK that has the infrastructure, you

00:32:54.220 –> 00:32:56.400
don’t have to limit yourself to solutions that

00:32:56.400 –> 00:32:58.640
only use an M6, because in some instances that’s

00:32:58.640 –> 00:33:01.079
over -engineering. But being really considerate

00:33:01.079 –> 00:33:02.960
of the context you’re in, I think, unlocks a

00:33:02.960 –> 00:33:06.119
lot of great opportunities. That’s awesome. One

00:33:06.119 –> 00:33:07.940
thing I want to ask you about your design is

00:33:07.940 –> 00:33:10.279
you put it on wheels, and this really intrigued

00:33:10.279 –> 00:33:14.279
me. Tell me about why is it on wheels? Is it

00:33:14.279 –> 00:33:16.680
to get it shipping easier? What’s the reason

00:33:16.680 –> 00:33:19.740
behind that? Yeah, so we actually in the first

00:33:19.740 –> 00:33:22.119
instance we put wheels on because we didn’t know

00:33:22.119 –> 00:33:24.599
how people would use the machine Because it was

00:33:24.599 –> 00:33:26.460
such a big behavior change, we weren’t sure if

00:33:26.460 –> 00:33:28.380
they’d want to move it. So we put them on so

00:33:28.380 –> 00:33:30.079
that we could do a survey at the end and say,

00:33:30.119 –> 00:33:32.619
do you like the wheels on it? In a slightly less

00:33:32.619 –> 00:33:35.420
leaning way. And it turns out everyone used them.

00:33:35.480 –> 00:33:37.380
And it’s unlocked all these really interesting

00:33:37.380 –> 00:33:40.299
use cases where people are taking the machine

00:33:40.299 –> 00:33:42.380
and wheeling it to their neighbor’s house so

00:33:42.380 –> 00:33:44.599
their neighbor can use it for the day. And we’ve

00:33:44.599 –> 00:33:47.079
inadvertently created these communities where

00:33:47.079 –> 00:33:49.059
five or six households are sharing this machine

00:33:49.059 –> 00:33:52.460
and they’ll each have a day. Or it lives by the

00:33:52.460 –> 00:33:54.220
well, so everyone in the community can access

00:33:54.220 –> 00:33:56.180
it and then it just gets wheeled into someone’s

00:33:56.180 –> 00:33:59.440
home at night for security. And we didn’t necessarily

00:33:59.440 –> 00:34:02.660
intend that at the beginning. But I think that’s

00:34:02.660 –> 00:34:04.160
a really interesting thing. And when we talk

00:34:04.160 –> 00:34:06.180
about sustainability and behaviour change as

00:34:06.180 –> 00:34:09.280
well, communal access to resources is a really

00:34:09.280 –> 00:34:12.530
interesting way to look at it. was was more common

00:34:12.530 –> 00:34:14.949
historically like when we were doing our story

00:34:14.949 –> 00:34:18.670
particularly in the 50s 60s 70s as early electric

00:34:18.670 –> 00:34:19.989
machines came about they were done they were

00:34:19.989 –> 00:34:21.829
in wash houses so you’d go to your local laundry

00:34:21.829 –> 00:34:24.230
which is often co -located with a with a swimming

00:34:24.230 –> 00:34:26.250
bath or something like that and you do the washing

00:34:26.250 –> 00:34:28.670
together it was very social experience but also

00:34:28.670 –> 00:34:30.570
from an efficiency point of view that machine’s

00:34:30.570 –> 00:34:33.000
being used all the time and it feels like The

00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:35.179
experience you’re having is exactly the same,

00:34:35.260 –> 00:34:38.099
but with much more refined designs and a much

00:34:38.099 –> 00:34:40.440
more efficient design you’ve created. What do

00:34:40.440 –> 00:34:42.539
you guys feel is the future of washing then?

00:34:42.679 –> 00:34:45.219
Because we focus very much on the washing machine

00:34:45.219 –> 00:34:47.679
and there’s a lot more. There’s drying, there’s

00:34:47.679 –> 00:34:49.579
folding, there’s, I mean, sourcing my kids’ socks

00:34:49.579 –> 00:34:52.820
is just a nightmare. What’s out there that’s

00:34:52.820 –> 00:34:55.840
going to change laundry and why is it still such

00:34:55.840 –> 00:34:57.719
a painful experience? Perhaps even why is it

00:34:57.719 –> 00:34:59.360
still all done by women, you know, mainly women?

00:35:00.039 –> 00:35:02.659
So we have actually done some hackathons in the

00:35:02.659 –> 00:35:05.340
UK. And one of our opening activities is talking

00:35:05.340 –> 00:35:07.300
about people’s laundry journeys. And there are

00:35:07.300 –> 00:35:11.159
still so many pain points. And now that we’ve

00:35:11.159 –> 00:35:13.619
got rid of so much of the manual labor and washing

00:35:13.619 –> 00:35:16.019
machines have become a commodity, the pain point

00:35:16.019 –> 00:35:18.619
is, oh, I’ve got to sort out my colors. And oh,

00:35:18.840 –> 00:35:21.480
I can’t match my socks. And oh, it’s a total

00:35:21.480 –> 00:35:23.300
pain when the kids get really muddy and I have

00:35:23.300 –> 00:35:25.639
to do a pre -stain wash. So there is so much

00:35:25.639 –> 00:35:28.849
opportunity for innovation in the space. But

00:35:28.849 –> 00:35:30.690
it’s always been kind of incremental innovations

00:35:30.690 –> 00:35:33.650
for the last hundred years, I would say. We haven’t

00:35:33.650 –> 00:35:35.909
had that step change. And I would really love

00:35:35.909 –> 00:35:38.949
to see a step change either in the technology

00:35:38.949 –> 00:35:41.849
or the service around it. And there are some

00:35:41.849 –> 00:35:45.159
apps. popping up around the servitisation of

00:35:45.159 –> 00:35:47.400
laundry where someone picks it up for you and

00:35:47.400 –> 00:35:50.559
then it will get sorted and comes back magically

00:35:50.559 –> 00:35:53.400
done, which I think is the dream scenario. The

00:35:53.400 –> 00:35:55.780
magic laundry service. It’s all sorted and folded

00:35:55.780 –> 00:35:57.360
and put away in your cupboard. So that’s what

00:35:57.360 –> 00:35:59.619
we want, isn’t it? Which would be the ideal.

00:35:59.820 –> 00:36:01.679
So I think there’s that user experience element

00:36:01.679 –> 00:36:03.780
trying to reduce those pain points, but there’s

00:36:03.780 –> 00:36:06.219
already so many pushes coming from a sustainability

00:36:06.219 –> 00:36:09.920
perspective. Energy use, water use, microplastics

00:36:09.920 –> 00:36:13.179
emissions and the right to repair. are all really

00:36:13.179 –> 00:36:15.960
under scrutiny at the minute. And I think a lot

00:36:15.960 –> 00:36:18.820
of industries in the kind of home appliance sector

00:36:18.820 –> 00:36:21.980
have quite a long way to go before they’re really

00:36:21.980 –> 00:36:25.480
at the ideal state. And what you found then in

00:36:25.480 –> 00:36:27.519
those is there’s incremental improvements in

00:36:27.519 –> 00:36:29.579
all of them. So there’s very smart water filters

00:36:29.579 –> 00:36:32.059
that can kind of get rid of microplastics. Obviously,

00:36:32.099 –> 00:36:34.199
there’s washing colder temperatures, which is…

00:36:34.429 –> 00:36:36.349
because of better detergents and machines are

00:36:36.349 –> 00:36:37.989
much more efficient but but like you said it’s

00:36:37.989 –> 00:36:40.929
incremental but it feels like it’s still in this

00:36:40.929 –> 00:36:43.750
very narrow space doesn’t it it’s just in the

00:36:43.750 –> 00:36:46.630
washing it’s not in the the folding and there’s

00:36:46.630 –> 00:36:49.050
always a robot cs trying to fold stuff and it

00:36:49.050 –> 00:36:51.489
breaks and things so phil have you got stuff

00:36:51.489 –> 00:36:53.349
to add on that have you what’s your perspective

00:36:53.349 –> 00:36:55.949
on washing we’ve been involved actually in in

00:36:55.949 –> 00:36:58.969
various different you know washing products and

00:36:58.969 –> 00:37:01.010
ironing products kind of over the years and i

00:37:01.010 –> 00:37:04.309
think the thing is it It sounds initially quite

00:37:04.309 –> 00:37:06.519
simple. We’re going to… develop a product that

00:37:06.519 –> 00:37:09.219
will iron things automatically but actually there’s

00:37:09.219 –> 00:37:12.639
so much tiny nuance that needs a human within

00:37:12.639 –> 00:37:14.900
that kind of process that actually it’s just

00:37:14.900 –> 00:37:16.639
very very difficult and that’s why you start

00:37:16.639 –> 00:37:19.019
to see robots doing it is because those robots

00:37:19.019 –> 00:37:21.059
are basically trying to mimic a human because

00:37:21.059 –> 00:37:24.360
actually a human you know look at two socks and

00:37:24.360 –> 00:37:27.679
go no they don’t match is really fast and the

00:37:27.679 –> 00:37:30.260
human’s actually doing a huge amount there that

00:37:30.260 –> 00:37:32.340
is really difficult to replicate in terms of

00:37:32.340 –> 00:37:34.400
kind of technology and it’s the same with kind

00:37:34.400 –> 00:37:36.699
of ironing you If you try to develop a product

00:37:36.699 –> 00:37:38.639
that irons trousers all the time, then that’s

00:37:38.639 –> 00:37:40.880
one thing. But actually being able to then adapt

00:37:40.880 –> 00:37:43.320
and iron a shirt and iron something else and

00:37:43.320 –> 00:37:45.619
then not iron something because actually it’s

00:37:45.619 –> 00:37:47.739
delicate and all that kind of stuff. Actually,

00:37:47.739 –> 00:37:50.159
the human being is really effective for all of

00:37:50.159 –> 00:37:52.400
those things and very, very difficult to replicate.

00:37:52.639 –> 00:37:55.019
So I think the future for this product is actually

00:37:55.019 –> 00:37:57.340
quite hard and it probably will be small incremental

00:37:57.340 –> 00:37:59.980
changes. I mean, no laser washing, no carbon

00:37:59.980 –> 00:38:02.559
dioxide filling washing machines that instantly…

00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.380
throwing around your clothes so i remember 15

00:38:05.380 –> 00:38:06.920
years ago people say oh and we’re not going to

00:38:06.920 –> 00:38:08.260
wash clothes in water anymore it’s going to be

00:38:08.260 –> 00:38:10.920
sound waves and you know it’s like yeah that’s

00:38:10.920 –> 00:38:13.920
never happened so i just can’t i don’t know i’m

00:38:13.920 –> 00:38:15.719
barely cynical that there’s going to be a big

00:38:15.719 –> 00:38:18.300
new technology that makes a huge difference because

00:38:18.300 –> 00:38:20.559
as laura says there’s so many different pressures

00:38:20.559 –> 00:38:23.889
the sustainability pressure and making it quicker

00:38:23.889 –> 00:38:26.650
pressure and then the cost because people just

00:38:26.650 –> 00:38:28.889
don’t want to spend £4 ,000 on a washing machine,

00:38:28.949 –> 00:38:30.849
all of that type of thing. I think it’s quite

00:38:30.849 –> 00:38:32.789
a hard category. There always seems to be a huge

00:38:32.789 –> 00:38:35.110
variety. And I think that in our research, we

00:38:35.110 –> 00:38:37.210
found that the volume of washing has increased

00:38:37.210 –> 00:38:38.909
as the washing machine was invented. And I wonder,

00:38:38.949 –> 00:38:41.409
Laura, if you’ve seen that with your consumers,

00:38:41.449 –> 00:38:43.789
that now they can wash and it only takes 20 minutes

00:38:43.789 –> 00:38:46.469
instead of four hours. Do they now wash more

00:38:46.469 –> 00:38:48.309
of their saris? Are they washing things they

00:38:48.309 –> 00:38:50.730
didn’t wash previously? We haven’t found that.

00:38:50.960 –> 00:38:52.760
The longest users of our machine have had the

00:38:52.760 –> 00:38:54.980
machine for about 18 months so far. And what

00:38:54.980 –> 00:38:57.179
they’re currently doing is doing the same amount

00:38:57.179 –> 00:38:59.659
of laundry in less time and using that time to

00:38:59.659 –> 00:39:02.599
do other things. I think if we were to leave

00:39:02.599 –> 00:39:04.760
it for as long as people have had washing machines

00:39:04.760 –> 00:39:07.300
in the UK, some of those behavioral and cultural

00:39:07.300 –> 00:39:09.820
changes might happen. But I think that takes

00:39:09.820 –> 00:39:12.400
a really long time. I wish that was true in my

00:39:12.400 –> 00:39:15.360
house. I feel like six wash loads a week is a

00:39:15.360 –> 00:39:17.420
bit excessive. But I think part of that is also

00:39:17.420 –> 00:39:20.059
the volume, the type of clothing that we have.

00:39:20.230 –> 00:39:22.510
so we’ve got delicates which you don’t want to

00:39:22.510 –> 00:39:24.610
you want to wash differently to washing colors

00:39:24.610 –> 00:39:27.949
it’s a nightmare it’s a nightmare washing seems

00:39:27.949 –> 00:39:30.250
to be a nightmare do you guys feel there is a

00:39:30.250 –> 00:39:32.869
piece of technology that can transform washing

00:39:32.869 –> 00:39:35.210
like is ai this which seems to be the solution

00:39:35.210 –> 00:39:36.849
to everything at the minute out there or is it

00:39:36.849 –> 00:39:38.329
actually we’re looking for something much simpler

00:39:38.329 –> 00:39:41.489
like you have with the the divio washing machine

00:39:41.489 –> 00:39:44.250
we do see some of the the newer technologies

00:39:44.250 –> 00:39:46.969
creeping into industrial levels of laundry so

00:39:46.969 –> 00:39:53.429
things like NFC going on with different sheets

00:39:53.429 –> 00:39:55.650
being matched and aged when you’re talking about

00:39:55.650 –> 00:39:57.630
industrial laundry so like a hotel that’s washing

00:39:57.630 –> 00:39:59.210
all of their sheets and wants to know when they

00:39:59.210 –> 00:40:01.989
get to life and things like that and AI is starting

00:40:01.989 –> 00:40:03.869
to creep into some of those solutions as well

00:40:03.869 –> 00:40:08.929
so it’s happening slowly in on industrial scales

00:40:08.929 –> 00:40:11.610
of laundry I suppose it could trickle down to

00:40:11.610 –> 00:40:14.170
to household laundry but I don’t think we’re

00:40:14.170 –> 00:40:17.590
at that just yet It wouldn’t be brilliant if

00:40:17.590 –> 00:40:19.269
you could just put your clothes in and the machine

00:40:19.269 –> 00:40:21.530
knew what to do. I mean, I can’t understand the

00:40:21.530 –> 00:40:23.590
hieroglyphic label. And you’re right, in an industrial,

00:40:23.690 –> 00:40:25.670
you have the little NFC tags. That’s the contactless

00:40:25.670 –> 00:40:27.309
tags. That’s like your contactless payment. And

00:40:27.309 –> 00:40:30.889
from that, they can track the individual product,

00:40:30.929 –> 00:40:33.050
in fact, to find out what it is. And I loved

00:40:33.050 –> 00:40:35.690
in your story, Ben, talking about Miele and the

00:40:35.690 –> 00:40:37.670
fact they’ve been around now for like a hundred

00:40:37.670 –> 00:40:40.900
and… 20, 30 years. And we’ve had a Miele washing

00:40:40.900 –> 00:40:43.940
machine for like 24 years now, which is quite

00:40:43.940 –> 00:40:47.000
exciting versus most of my parents, for example,

00:40:47.039 –> 00:40:48.340
they seem to have to change their washing machine

00:40:48.340 –> 00:40:49.900
every seven or eight years. And I’m sat there

00:40:49.900 –> 00:40:52.400
quite smug because they’ve been through three

00:40:52.400 –> 00:40:53.739
washing machines in the time that we’ve been

00:40:53.739 –> 00:40:56.429
through one. I’m just interested, Laura, in your

00:40:56.429 –> 00:40:58.250
view, is that the kind of way it’s going to go

00:40:58.250 –> 00:40:59.909
in terms of the sustainability thing? I mean,

00:40:59.909 –> 00:41:01.670
obviously, the repairability is going to kind

00:41:01.670 –> 00:41:04.230
of help potentially with that. But this Miele

00:41:04.230 –> 00:41:05.929
washing machine, we haven’t done anything done

00:41:05.929 –> 00:41:08.989
to it at all in 24 years, which is, I think,

00:41:09.050 –> 00:41:11.650
kind of remarkable. So do you think kind of the

00:41:11.650 –> 00:41:14.670
durability aspect potentially is part of the

00:41:14.670 –> 00:41:16.750
future of washing machines? And I guess the other

00:41:16.750 –> 00:41:18.690
part of the question is, do you think that people

00:41:18.690 –> 00:41:22.389
like… the design teams for Miele or Whirlpool,

00:41:22.510 –> 00:41:23.809
which I think the washing machine product is

00:41:23.809 –> 00:41:25.389
involved with, are they going to be coming to

00:41:25.389 –> 00:41:27.329
you going, how do you use half the water? How

00:41:27.329 –> 00:41:29.150
do you get it done in 30 minutes? Is there stuff

00:41:29.150 –> 00:41:31.530
that they can take from you and learn from going

00:41:31.530 –> 00:41:34.389
forward? The durable angle is definitely what

00:41:34.389 –> 00:41:36.590
we’ve gone for. So our machine is designed for

00:41:36.590 –> 00:41:39.449
10 years of life. And we just got some life test

00:41:39.449 –> 00:41:41.690
results yesterday, actually, that we’ve hit 1

00:41:41.690 –> 00:41:43.789
.3 times in life and it’s still going smoothly.

00:41:43.969 –> 00:41:47.449
So we really aim for it to be used every day

00:41:47.449 –> 00:41:50.500
for extended periods. 24 years would be the dream.

00:41:50.699 –> 00:41:52.940
And that’s the direction I’d love things to go

00:41:52.940 –> 00:41:56.460
in for them not to be repaired at all. That does

00:41:56.460 –> 00:41:59.099
come at a price premium though. So there are

00:41:59.099 –> 00:42:01.380
some, we don’t personally charge the end users

00:42:01.380 –> 00:42:03.940
for the washing machine. We fund that through

00:42:03.940 –> 00:42:08.139
corporate partners or donations. For us, that’s

00:42:08.139 –> 00:42:10.679
something that we can manage separately. But

00:42:10.679 –> 00:42:13.000
trying to convince people to pay for that extra

00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:15.219
durability is a real challenge. So as designers,

00:42:15.260 –> 00:42:17.460
trying to get that durability without extra cost

00:42:17.460 –> 00:42:19.940
is a really big challenge. But something that

00:42:19.940 –> 00:42:22.300
I think it would be great if more people aimed

00:42:22.300 –> 00:42:26.000
for. So the warranties of two years, you know,

00:42:26.039 –> 00:42:28.559
why aren’t they 10? Why can’t we aim for that?

00:42:28.719 –> 00:42:31.199
And in terms of washing machine manufacturers,

00:42:31.440 –> 00:42:33.320
we actually have a fantastic partnership with

00:42:33.320 –> 00:42:36.719
Whirlpool. And we’ve worked really collaboratively.

00:42:37.159 –> 00:42:39.820
to create the design that we have and to manufacture

00:42:39.820 –> 00:42:43.750
it at larger scales so we’re able to learn some

00:42:43.750 –> 00:42:46.750
of the fundamentals of laundry technology from

00:42:46.750 –> 00:42:49.309
their, you know, over 100 years of history in

00:42:49.309 –> 00:42:52.389
that space. But from us, we have banks of user

00:42:52.389 –> 00:42:54.909
research about this current problem space and

00:42:54.909 –> 00:42:57.429
what users are telling us from 13 different countries,

00:42:57.610 –> 00:43:00.610
you know, Iraq, Lebanon, Uganda, Kenya, India,

00:43:00.789 –> 00:43:04.090
Mexico. So we’re able to bring those two things

00:43:04.090 –> 00:43:06.349
together to make something that’s really intentionally

00:43:06.349 –> 00:43:09.510
designed for the users that we’re targeting.

00:43:09.750 –> 00:43:11.369
We quoted, I think it was a Vatican magazine

00:43:11.369 –> 00:43:13.219
saying like the washing machines. freed up women

00:43:13.219 –> 00:43:14.900
more than you know anything in history and of

00:43:14.900 –> 00:43:16.820
course we hope they were taking the piss in that

00:43:16.820 –> 00:43:19.500
but do you think the washing machine has freed

00:43:19.980 –> 00:43:22.639
women up has freed people up yeah i think it

00:43:22.639 –> 00:43:24.579
definitely has and it’s not just the washing

00:43:24.579 –> 00:43:27.440
machine i think the automation of a lot of household

00:43:27.440 –> 00:43:29.579
tasks so washing machines dishwashers vacuum

00:43:29.579 –> 00:43:32.099
cleaners i’m talking about here has massively

00:43:32.099 –> 00:43:35.179
reduced the time that has to be put into unpaid

00:43:35.179 –> 00:43:38.760
manual labor which historically and across the

00:43:38.760 –> 00:43:42.619
world is generally done by women so i think there’s

00:43:42.619 –> 00:43:45.480
a lot of data that would support that and we

00:43:45.480 –> 00:43:48.219
definitely see it with the machines that we use

00:43:48.219 –> 00:43:51.280
both with women having more time available and

00:43:51.280 –> 00:43:53.239
you know they do all kinds of things with that

00:43:53.239 –> 00:43:55.840
sometimes it’s relaxing education sometimes it’s

00:43:55.840 –> 00:43:58.699
just other household chores but to me that’s

00:43:58.699 –> 00:44:00.800
what empowerment is we’re giving them more choice

00:44:00.800 –> 00:44:04.710
of what to do with their time and it also has

00:44:04.710 –> 00:44:07.349
done something really interesting. And I said

00:44:07.349 –> 00:44:09.269
for a long time, my dream bit of feedback would

00:44:09.269 –> 00:44:11.590
be a woman saying she was no longer the primary

00:44:11.590 –> 00:44:14.110
washer of the household, that it switched to

00:44:14.110 –> 00:44:16.849
the man. And we distributed some machines last

00:44:16.849 –> 00:44:19.110
April in India. And in the six month survey,

00:44:19.269 –> 00:44:21.670
we had two households where that was the case.

00:44:21.849 –> 00:44:24.389
And for me, that’s incredible, because it really

00:44:24.389 –> 00:44:27.090
challenges some of those expectations that are

00:44:27.090 –> 00:44:30.230
placed on women. And it shares the load a little

00:44:30.230 –> 00:44:33.030
more fairly. Laura Tuck from The Washing Machine

00:44:33.030 –> 00:44:35.530
Project, a massive, massive thank you for all

00:44:35.530 –> 00:44:37.750
your amazing work. And thank you so much for

00:44:37.750 –> 00:44:41.750
joining us. Listeners, please do visit thewashingmachineproject

00:44:41.750 –> 00:44:44.230
.org. You can make donations. You can find out

00:44:44.230 –> 00:44:47.230
much more about that fabulous work and listen

00:44:47.230 –> 00:44:48.769
to some of the stories from both the consumers

00:44:48.769 –> 00:44:50.980
and see the design and development there. And

00:44:50.980 –> 00:44:53.840
it’s in our show notes below. I hope you’ve enjoyed

00:44:53.840 –> 00:44:56.579
listening to Why the Fork. Please do like, share.

00:44:56.679 –> 00:44:58.500
We’d love to make another series and we need

00:44:58.500 –> 00:45:00.420
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00:45:00.420 –> 00:45:03.159
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00:45:03.159 –> 00:45:04.260
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