Why the Hair Straightener? Rachel the hairy trend setter

WEBVTT

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Hello, I’m Ben Diamond, an inventor of consumer

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products, and you’re listening to Why the Fork.

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In this podcast, we’re looking at the everyday

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products in your home, the ones you don’t think

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about, but have transformed our lives. And asking,

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why are they like this? Why engineers came up

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with them? How they were inspired by politics,

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trends and social needs. This is a podcast by

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D2M Product Design. And Phil Staunton, our design

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expert, will be joining us later. We will also

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be discussing with engineers at the front end

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of design to see what’s on the horizon. In this

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episode, racism, fish scales, irons, and the

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slight smell of burning from our bedroom. Where

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my daughter’s vanished to and come out looking,

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well, totally different, like a movie star. What

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could have possibly transformed her so much?

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The answer lies in a very smart innovation that

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allows women and men to style, straighten and

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even curl their hair at home, giving a glossy

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and sleek professional straight finish. The Humble

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Hair Straightener. Now perhaps not as famous

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or as noisy as its cousin, the blow dryer, the

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hair straightener has magically transformed teenagers

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and party goers alike. It makes professionals

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look more powerful or simply controls a bad hair

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day. And I wondered, why the fork? When did these

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magical implements appear? What makes them so

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successful? And what separates a good hair day

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from a bad hair day? To delve into why the hair

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straightener, we need science. Hair is complex,

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I mean really complex. And there’s some serious

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science behind it. Did you know? Hair is made

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up of three layers. But the biggest impact when

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your curls are waveness is not the hair itself,

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but where your hair grows from, the follicle

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and their shape. Circular follicles give you

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Asian -style dead straight hair. Oval follicles

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give you the wavy hair of Europeans. And flatter

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follicles, the tight kinky curl of Afro -Caribbean

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hair. This is the same effect as when you extrude

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pasta or plasticine through a dye. Put it in

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a flat shaped hole and your tagliatelle will

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curl. In a round type hole and you get straight

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sausages. So the best thing you can do to get

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straight hair is to change your genetics and

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have rounder follicles. We all want the hair

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we don’t have to stand out or fit in and want

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to change it as fashion events or parties come

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around. I know that I need to have sufficiently

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crazy hair when inventing. But when different

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peoples or different cultures or races meet,

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they naturally either want to conform or stand

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out. In ancient Egypt, we see a mixture of cultures

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and hair types in North Africa, and early signs

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of straight, long hair related to power and elite,

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and probably as a way to reduce lice. They used

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heated bone or stone tools on the fire to straighten

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hair. Not particularly practical. The Greeks

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and Romans… They were very fashion conscious

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and wavy hair of various lengths were more common,

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like you see in the antique statues. To curl,

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they used a hollow reed -like iron, a kalinstrum,

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heating it in wood ash. The use of heated irons

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was adopted very early among the Romans and it

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was as common as today’s styling. The Roman statesman

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and philosopher Cicero says that Roman youths

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and matrons often appeared with their hair curled

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in this calamantry style. So if the Egyptians

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were mainly straight and bewigged, and the Romans

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and Greeks all curly, why, or when, the hair

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straightener? If you google the history of the

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straightener, you’ll find, around 1912, Lady

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Jennifer Bell Schofield, a Scottish heiress,

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when waves were all the rage, became the first

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innovator in straightening, by inventing the

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hair tongs. But… She appears to be something

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of a mystery. I’ve not been able to find any

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evidence of patents. The journalist, Kelsey McKinney,

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having looked at records at the British Library,

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goes as far to suggest that she might not even

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have existed. Could she have been an invention

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herself, or did she just get the idea of straightening

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promoted? Or maybe she used them, but didn’t

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patent them, and that her concept was marketed

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by others. Either way, Lady Jen feels like a

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dead end. We need to go a little bit further

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back for the first inventor. have invented a

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certain new and useful hair straightener. The

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first true invention in 1893 lies with Ada Harris,

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a schoolteacher. A patent joins, like a set of

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sprung tongs, the type of thing you use to cook

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with, with larger flat panels on the end. And

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these metal plates are warmed on a stovetop like

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an old -fashioned iron and can be drawn through

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the hair. Ada Harris carried her prototype and

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drawings across the United States, from Indianapolis

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to the California Midwinter International Exposition

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of 1894. I looked through photos endlessly of

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the fair and I couldn’t see Ada listed on any

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of the displays. Then she went back to teaching

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and I wonder if she’s gone through the same experience

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many inventors do, having created a great prototype

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which showcases at a trade fair, only to have

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a lacklustre response and hide the prototype

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in the attic. Ada worked in her black community

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as a teacher. In 1909, she told the Indianapolis

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Star, My greatest ambition is for my race. I

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want them to have an equal chance. She faced

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a struggle both to get the innovation over the

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line as a black woman and in a more neglected

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community. And it’s more this social position

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that’s why her invention and her name is not

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celebrated. However, her motivation for hair

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straighteners comes from a very strong need.

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Racial segregation in the US was common and the

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African -American community faced bigotry and

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discrimination. African kinky hair is the curliest

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you’ll find. My friend’s tightly curled hair

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stretches to over a metre when extended and it’s

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so elastic and fine. But in the 1890s, curly

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hair marks out an individual as being very different.

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We often want to fit in and conform and Ada recognised

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that her black community aspired to having the

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straighter, more European hair to be more accepted.

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Ada’s patent says, My invention relates to hair

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straightener whose purpose is to straighten curly

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hair and is especially of service to coloured

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people in the straightening of their hair. Racism

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led to the need for straighter hair in her black

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community. It’s possible Ada met another black

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innovator. Madame CJ Walker, or Sarah Breedlove

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Walker, who rebranded herself Madame to sound

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more French, the epitome of beauty. She’s known

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for being the first self -made female millionaire

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in the US and built her factory in Indianapolis,

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just around the corner from Ada. She established

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cosmetics and hair treatments for black women

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around 1910. She was the innovator and marketeer

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who trained and popularised the beauty salon.

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including a hair straightening line using hot

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combs, inspired by the old -fashioned Kalimstrom

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curling irons, which she improved with wider

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teeth. It’s a real shame that Madam Walker didn’t

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take Ada’s invention and turn it into the innovation

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that would have transformed so many lives. Or

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maybe she did. I suspect that these combs were

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in part inspired by Ada. With these full starts,

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it’s really the men who got all the fame. Isaac

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K. Chirot, who in 1909 patented very similar

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to Ada’s, with the sprung -loaded tongs and heated

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flat iron plates. That allows you to control

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the pressure in the hair. Rather than a heated

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comb like Madame Walker’s, the flat plates don’t

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get tangled in the hair. The Parisian Francois

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-Marcel Gratteau, who invented the Marcel wave.

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all the rage by the roaring 20s now he wasn’t

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trying to straighten hair but to mimic his mother’s

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beautiful curls using tongs heated on a stow

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top just like the roman calistrum he could crimp

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your hair into a dynamic wave and bobs charging

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500 francs some of this is flair rather than

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invention and the 200 degree tongs like the heated

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ones from the greeks could burn and school the

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hair well that’s a small price to pay for fashion

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He’s therefore known as the inventor of hair

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straighteners, but really he popularised curls.

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Beyond the heezy tongs, things are quiet for

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a while. Professionally, you could have your

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hair crimped and styled with brushes and dryers

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at the salon. And you could chemically treat

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your hair at home using semi -permanent creams

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like Permacelite from the 50s. Like European

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hair, the fashion for straight hair came in small

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waves over the century. And one invention stepped

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up to fill the gap. Well into the 1990s, the

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way to straighten your hair at home was the humble

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domestic iron. Pop it on a cool setting, lie

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your hair on an ironing board under a tablecloth,

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and trust your mum or friend to straighten your

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hair without burning your head. No, it’s not

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one I’d recommend. But I’ve seen girls in the

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90s doing just this. That doesn’t mean there

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was no innovation. GE’s 1970s curl -tamer straighteners

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had Teflon -coated panels, that’s the non -stick

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in your pants, to glide over the hair. Also,

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in the 90s, we saw steam -powered hair straighteners.

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The steam helps the hair relax, and there’s a

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nice YouTube video of a Conair one being pretty

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naff. Yes, I got a Conair steam straightener

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from 1999. So let’s see if this thing works.

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It’s dual voltage for world travel in case you

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were wondering. So yes, it can go international.

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Thank God. How many people are scared? Me too.

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I’m really, really scared. The torture device.

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I mean, the straightener is heating up. This

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is gonna be a lot worse. I’m not gonna lie. I

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take it back. This is the worst straightener

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right behind the Conair one with the velvet plates.

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Awful. Who proved this? The iron was good enough.

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Consumers. didn’t need the next step. The clever

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inventions were not in the mechanics, but in

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the chemistry, electronics and heating, and how

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to make it all work in the hands of a teenager

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in their bedroom. But it only takes one person

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to start a revolution. And sadly, she’s not a

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designer. But Rachel from Friends. Her fabulous

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hair was the driver for the 90s and noughties

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push for straightness. She created the need,

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like in Ada’s community. Everyone asked the salons

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to cut the Rachel, just like they wanted the

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Marcel wave. But now, at last, the iron was no

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longer up to the task. In 1999, in a kitchen

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in Yorkshire, a hairdresser, Robert Powell, had

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dinner with a friend. He’d just come back from

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Korea with a new prototype hair straightener

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and thought Robert would like to try it. Robert

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quickly styled his wife Susan’s hair. The next

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morning she came downstairs saying, I’m having

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a really good hair day. GHD, good hair day, was

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born over breakfast. The prototype had an innovative

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ceramically coated aluminium plate. They heat

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up quickly, and unlike the steel plates of the

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past, distributes heat evenly, preventing hair

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burning. The coated heat -resistant ceramic,

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like the heat shields on the Space Shuttle, glides

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across the surface of the hair with ease. Unlike

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Ada’s, Isaac or Empire’s wide iron plates, or

00:12:19.360 –> 00:12:22.799
the tiny tongs of Marcel, GHD’s had a narrow

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2cm wide plate and a curved back that allows

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you to twist the straighteners through your hair.

00:12:28.980 –> 00:12:31.220
This modern curved back shape is seen on all

00:12:31.220 –> 00:12:33.360
the latest straighteners so you can crimp and

00:12:33.360 –> 00:12:36.779
curl and style too. And here’s the innovative

00:12:36.779 –> 00:12:38.940
thing, because Robert’s connections are in the

00:12:38.940 –> 00:12:42.159
salon industry and not in retail, the Korean

00:12:42.159 –> 00:12:44.399
imported hair straighteners weren’t sold to shops

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but distributed in the salons from his kitchen

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table. When you’ve had your hair professionally

00:12:50.039 –> 00:12:52.720
rate -short, you could now purchase a set of

00:12:52.720 –> 00:12:55.340
in -home straighteners far superior to the iron

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and more convenient than the regular visits to

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hairdressers. At £109, significantly more than

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a Conair or GE, but their performance was a massive

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step change. The combination of the recommendation

00:13:07.740 –> 00:13:10.320
from the salons, who could make significantly

00:13:10.320 –> 00:13:13.460
more money upselling a GHD than a tub of conditioner,

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and that performance meant they were worth it.

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With the drive from Rachel, women wanted to be

00:13:20.610 –> 00:13:22.590
able to control their hair in homes and with

00:13:22.590 –> 00:13:24.789
Robert’s expensive but effective tools, they

00:13:24.789 –> 00:13:27.490
now had the power to do so. Robert says that

00:13:27.490 –> 00:13:29.929
he demonstrated to the beauty editor of the Evening

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Standard and she almost burst into tears saying,

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I’ve never been able to do my hair like this.

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GHD changed hairstyling in a way that Ada had

00:13:38.950 –> 00:13:45.000
envisioned a hundred years before. Now. There

00:13:45.000 –> 00:13:48.039
are many excellent straighteners out there. Brands

00:13:48.039 –> 00:13:50.559
with better ceramics from silicates like glass

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and rare earth metals, more rapid heating, portability

00:13:53.960 –> 00:13:57.500
and battery power, and sensors that detect and

00:13:57.500 –> 00:14:00.799
help you style. They’ve taken technology from

00:14:00.799 –> 00:14:03.460
vacuum cleaners and airflow and heating and cooling

00:14:03.460 –> 00:14:06.279
into the next generation of £400 straighteners.

00:14:06.919 –> 00:14:09.559
And this innovation will continue because the

00:14:09.559 –> 00:14:12.399
science of hair is complex and our styling needs

00:14:12.399 –> 00:14:17.379
vary between individuals. Reaching back to our

00:14:17.379 –> 00:14:20.240
classical societies, styling and straightening

00:14:20.240 –> 00:14:23.559
of hair to belong, feel good and just look fabulous

00:14:23.559 –> 00:14:27.259
has always been important. Our innovators on

00:14:27.259 –> 00:14:29.779
our journey all recognised that need and although

00:14:29.779 –> 00:14:32.100
the humble iron delivered for many and the hair

00:14:32.100 –> 00:14:35.409
salon provided a service, The ability to style

00:14:35.409 –> 00:14:37.529
with ease at home is thanks to both the clever

00:14:37.529 –> 00:14:40.309
engineers and creative innovators who responded

00:14:40.309 –> 00:14:43.909
to a need and educated our consumers in the tools

00:14:43.909 –> 00:14:47.990
they designed and the methods to style. And given

00:14:47.990 –> 00:14:51.769
our style will forever evolve, let’s hear how

00:14:51.769 –> 00:14:54.230
the hair straightener will have a glossy, smooth

00:14:54.230 –> 00:15:03.419
and straight future. Let’s bring in Phil, our

00:15:03.419 –> 00:15:06.480
design expert from D2M, to talk more about the

00:15:06.480 –> 00:15:09.700
hair straightener. Phil, hello. Hi, Ben. Nice

00:15:09.700 –> 00:15:11.700
to be back. It’s great to be back. How’s the

00:15:11.700 –> 00:15:14.100
hair, first of all? Is it looking good? I got

00:15:14.100 –> 00:15:17.740
it cut yesterday, actually, especially. Have

00:15:17.740 –> 00:15:19.720
you ever used hair straighteners? We’ve got a

00:15:19.720 –> 00:15:21.000
whole podcast on hair straighteners. Have you

00:15:21.000 –> 00:15:23.419
ever used one? I have used hair straighteners.

00:15:23.600 –> 00:15:26.419
And the reason for that is that actually we worked

00:15:26.419 –> 00:15:29.940
on this product, which looks like hair straighteners.

00:15:29.940 –> 00:15:33.100
It isn’t. It is for ironing lovely paisley shirts

00:15:33.100 –> 00:15:36.519
like yours. So Phil is holding up something that

00:15:36.519 –> 00:15:39.080
is about the size of a shoe, and it’s got two

00:15:39.080 –> 00:15:41.220
halves, two distinct halves, like hair straighteners

00:15:41.220 –> 00:15:43.679
would be. And I guess you would put your trousers

00:15:43.679 –> 00:15:45.700
between the two, is that right? Normally a shirt.

00:15:45.940 –> 00:15:47.659
Basically you hang your shirt on the hanger,

00:15:47.799 –> 00:15:50.399
say in a hotel or whatever, and then if there

00:15:50.399 –> 00:15:51.929
isn’t an iron, an ironing board. or you don’t

00:15:51.929 –> 00:15:53.649
want the faff of getting it out, you can actually

00:15:53.649 –> 00:15:56.789
just run this thing over it. It’s basically like

00:15:56.789 –> 00:16:00.409
a kind of, if an iron and hair straighteners

00:16:00.409 –> 00:16:03.429
had a child, this is what it might. come out

00:16:03.429 –> 00:16:07.769
like so the plates are bigger obviously and shaped

00:16:07.769 –> 00:16:09.830
more like an iron than they are in a hair straightener

00:16:09.830 –> 00:16:11.289
but the rest of it is very very similar to a

00:16:11.289 –> 00:16:13.529
kind of hair straightener style are the technologies

00:16:13.529 –> 00:16:15.549
then very similar between hair straighteners

00:16:15.549 –> 00:16:17.889
irons and in this case the kind of the press

00:16:17.889 –> 00:16:20.190
uh yeah i don’t think there’s a vast amount of

00:16:20.190 –> 00:16:21.629
difference we worked on that quite a long time

00:16:21.629 –> 00:16:25.090
ago but certainly in terms of the the heating

00:16:25.090 –> 00:16:27.990
the plates the critical element actually in a

00:16:27.990 –> 00:16:30.370
lot of the design is trying to stop the heat

00:16:30.370 –> 00:16:33.200
from the plates going to obviously to the hand

00:16:33.200 –> 00:16:35.399
but also to all the plastics in between that

00:16:35.399 –> 00:16:37.159
don’t have anything like the heat tolerance that

00:16:37.159 –> 00:16:39.559
that the ceramic does so yeah very much trying

00:16:39.559 –> 00:16:42.279
to actually keep the heat where you want it and

00:16:42.279 –> 00:16:44.460
not going to all the bits that can’t cope with

00:16:44.460 –> 00:16:46.139
that heat and equally you don’t want the heat

00:16:46.139 –> 00:16:48.500
to disappear into the product anyway you want

00:16:48.500 –> 00:16:50.259
the heat obviously to go into the item you’re

00:16:50.259 –> 00:16:53.059
trying to we’re talking like 200 degrees aren’t

00:16:53.059 –> 00:16:55.980
we so 180 for hair 200 degrees for fabrics or

00:16:55.980 –> 00:16:58.600
more that’s that’s a lot of heat and most plastics

00:16:58.600 –> 00:17:02.120
melt at what you know 160 yeah some even down

00:17:02.120 –> 00:17:05.500
to like 120 130 so you very quickly end up with

00:17:05.500 –> 00:17:08.259
a messy plastic puddle unless you’ve got some

00:17:08.259 –> 00:17:11.039
pretty good heat resistant normally ceramics

00:17:11.039 –> 00:17:15.059
in there um to stop the the the heat moving across

00:17:15.059 –> 00:17:17.440
and because those ceramics are really quite expensive

00:17:17.440 –> 00:17:20.619
what you end up with is tiny slithers of ceramic

00:17:20.619 –> 00:17:25.970
inside separating the metal plate I think most

00:17:25.970 –> 00:17:27.589
of us, when we use a product, don’t think about

00:17:27.589 –> 00:17:29.470
that kind of complexity. And even something as

00:17:29.470 –> 00:17:31.349
simple as an iron, we wouldn’t consider that

00:17:31.349 –> 00:17:33.029
you’d have to separate this. And I think this

00:17:33.029 –> 00:17:34.990
is where engineers and designers like yourself

00:17:34.990 –> 00:17:38.109
come in, really helping take an invention into

00:17:38.109 –> 00:17:39.970
something which is really production ready. Yeah,

00:17:39.990 –> 00:17:42.230
indeed. I think that’s absolutely true. I think

00:17:42.230 –> 00:17:44.190
often you see the outside of the product and

00:17:44.190 –> 00:17:46.930
what it does, and you almost kind of disregard

00:17:46.930 –> 00:17:49.089
the complexities of getting to the point where

00:17:49.089 –> 00:17:51.710
actually it works as it’s intended to do. You’ve

00:17:51.710 –> 00:17:53.869
listened to our story. Obviously, it’s quite

00:17:53.869 –> 00:17:56.099
an interesting story. one how similar do you

00:17:56.099 –> 00:17:59.059
feel our story in this episode was compared to

00:17:59.059 –> 00:18:01.240
our other ones you know it seemed to start much

00:18:01.240 –> 00:18:03.799
later it wasn’t incremental innovation to history

00:18:03.799 –> 00:18:05.640
it seemed to kind of suddenly happen yeah and

00:18:05.640 –> 00:18:07.700
i don’t think you know there’s no military connection

00:18:07.700 –> 00:18:10.140
this time you haven’t got soldiers running around

00:18:10.140 –> 00:18:12.819
no napoleon no napoleon is not in this episode

00:18:12.819 –> 00:18:16.500
which is nice there is a massive gap as you say

00:18:16.500 –> 00:18:19.160
from where there’s kind of patents like a hundred

00:18:19.160 –> 00:18:21.839
years or so ago and then actually the hair straightens

00:18:21.839 –> 00:18:24.980
are really only it looks like you know be invented

00:18:24.980 –> 00:18:27.039
if you like in terms of the kind of mainstream

00:18:27.039 –> 00:18:29.519
device that we all know the last kind of 30 40

00:18:29.519 –> 00:18:33.659
years so yeah that that lack of interest incremental

00:18:33.659 –> 00:18:36.279
kind of development is quite kind of obvious

00:18:36.279 –> 00:18:38.440
in this one. I wanted to ask you about Ada. So

00:18:38.440 –> 00:18:41.200
Ada’s this lady who invented the original hair

00:18:41.200 –> 00:18:42.740
straightener. The patent’s just behind me on

00:18:42.740 –> 00:18:45.960
the right here. And she invented it. She then

00:18:45.960 –> 00:18:48.759
went across to California to show it off at an

00:18:48.759 –> 00:18:50.339
innovation fair. And she invented it particularly

00:18:50.339 –> 00:18:52.940
for her black community with the very, very curly,

00:18:53.019 –> 00:18:56.190
twisty, kinky hair. and then disappeared. And

00:18:56.190 –> 00:18:57.910
we know there might be a connection with her

00:18:57.910 –> 00:19:01.329
and Madam CJ Walker, the entrepreneur, but it’s

00:19:01.329 –> 00:19:04.309
a bit shaky. Is that a common experience? You

00:19:04.309 –> 00:19:07.150
guys at D2M, you’ve done, what, 1 ,600 products

00:19:07.150 –> 00:19:09.549
from big businesses through to loan innovations?

00:19:09.890 –> 00:19:11.490
Yeah, no, that’s definitely kind of a common

00:19:11.490 –> 00:19:13.769
recurring theme. I think, you know, of those

00:19:13.769 –> 00:19:16.549
1 ,600 products, there aren’t 1 ,600 case studies

00:19:16.549 –> 00:19:18.869
on our website of massive commercial success

00:19:18.869 –> 00:19:21.670
of all of them. And we’d love there to be, and

00:19:21.670 –> 00:19:23.750
we work very, very hard to try and filter out.

00:19:23.789 –> 00:19:25.650
very early stages the ones that aren’t going

00:19:25.650 –> 00:19:26.970
to make it technically or the ones that are going

00:19:26.970 –> 00:19:29.250
to be way too expensive to make and all that

00:19:29.250 –> 00:19:32.410
kind of stuff we try and improve that success

00:19:32.410 –> 00:19:36.329
rate hugely but at the end of the day Unfortunately,

00:19:36.329 –> 00:19:39.750
lots of things get in the way between an amazing

00:19:39.750 –> 00:19:43.210
idea that’s prototyped to work even and is ready

00:19:43.210 –> 00:19:45.250
to go into production and actually making a commercial

00:19:45.250 –> 00:19:48.069
success of it. And not least, actually, the human

00:19:48.069 –> 00:19:50.329
factors. So often the person who’s come up with

00:19:50.329 –> 00:19:52.130
it will come up with something else. They’re

00:19:52.130 –> 00:19:54.509
an inventive person. They’re a creative person.

00:19:56.630 –> 00:19:58.809
Ideas are really easy. Ideas are easy. There

00:19:58.809 –> 00:20:00.490
are hundreds of them. But getting them through

00:20:00.490 –> 00:20:02.069
innovation, through all the different stages,

00:20:02.190 –> 00:20:04.269
is really challenging. That’s where you come

00:20:04.269 –> 00:20:07.339
in. yeah and i think also you know a lot of the

00:20:07.339 –> 00:20:10.259
time the person who comes up with the idea is

00:20:10.259 –> 00:20:12.200
not actually the right person to commercialize

00:20:12.200 –> 00:20:14.180
it they haven’t got the same skill sets they

00:20:14.180 –> 00:20:16.940
haven’t got the same persistence often their

00:20:16.940 –> 00:20:20.059
minds are you know hugely all over the place

00:20:20.059 –> 00:20:21.720
taking in loads of different inputs and loads

00:20:21.720 –> 00:20:23.059
of different things and they will just come up

00:20:23.059 –> 00:20:24.980
with something else equally they’re often quite

00:20:24.980 –> 00:20:27.000
proactive people because obviously you know almost

00:20:27.000 –> 00:20:28.779
everyone has an idea very few people do anything

00:20:28.779 –> 00:20:31.559
about it so often they’re creative people who

00:20:31.559 –> 00:20:33.500
are very proactive but that often means actually

00:20:33.500 –> 00:20:35.119
they end up doing all sorts of other things i

00:20:35.119 –> 00:20:37.279
i wonder then if this is i mean this is perhaps

00:20:37.279 –> 00:20:39.039
the biggest the takeaway from this story then

00:20:39.039 –> 00:20:42.059
is if we could only have got ada and madam cj

00:20:42.059 –> 00:20:44.259
walker definitely in a room together with with

00:20:44.259 –> 00:20:47.819
ada’s invention and with madam cj walker’s commercial

00:20:47.819 –> 00:20:50.799
acumen and channels would she then have been

00:20:50.799 –> 00:20:52.980
able to do what what ghc clearly did you know

00:20:52.980 –> 00:20:55.960
chat right channel right product right time Yeah,

00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.160
quite possibly so. I mean, you need a good dose

00:20:58.160 –> 00:21:01.240
of luck. Definitely what you said about right

00:21:01.240 –> 00:21:04.720
timing is absolutely critical. people who are

00:21:04.720 –> 00:21:07.400
way more experienced than I am in terms of helping

00:21:07.400 –> 00:21:10.220
founders get products to market and who try and

00:21:10.220 –> 00:21:13.079
work out kind of formulas for success, you know,

00:21:13.079 –> 00:21:16.839
they talk hugely about timing. And I think we

00:21:16.839 –> 00:21:18.359
can probably all point to products and we go,

00:21:18.420 –> 00:21:20.099
well, actually that launched and it could have

00:21:20.099 –> 00:21:22.380
been great, but it was just too early. There

00:21:22.380 –> 00:21:24.720
weren’t enough people ready for it or it was

00:21:24.720 –> 00:21:26.819
too late and something else got there first or

00:21:26.819 –> 00:21:30.279
technology moved on or whatever else. So I think,

00:21:30.279 –> 00:21:34.119
you know, that definitely kind of happens. You’re

00:21:34.119 –> 00:21:37.099
right, Ada with the idea, with Madame Walker,

00:21:37.140 –> 00:21:39.160
who’s clearly hugely commercial, you know, first

00:21:39.160 –> 00:21:42.079
self -made female millionaire in the US. I mean,

00:21:42.119 –> 00:21:46.410
clearly knew her beans. And there’s some doubt,

00:21:46.490 –> 00:21:48.109
as you said in the story, about whether actually

00:21:48.109 –> 00:21:49.990
they ever met and whatever else. But there may

00:21:49.990 –> 00:21:51.309
have been all sorts of other things that didn’t

00:21:51.309 –> 00:21:53.609
happen. So this comes up a lot with our clients

00:21:53.609 –> 00:21:55.390
as well. They go to a company with a great idea

00:21:55.390 –> 00:21:56.930
and they go, look, this fits brilliantly with

00:21:56.930 –> 00:21:59.289
your product portfolio. You should launch this.

00:21:59.349 –> 00:22:00.769
It would, you know, and all this kind of stuff.

00:22:00.890 –> 00:22:01.930
And the company turns around and goes, hang on

00:22:01.930 –> 00:22:04.170
a sec. We’ve got a five -year development program.

00:22:04.589 –> 00:22:07.170
We’ve just invested half a million quid in X

00:22:07.170 –> 00:22:09.509
new products. We’re not going to pull our resource

00:22:09.509 –> 00:22:12.430
onto your little idea. And also sometimes the

00:22:12.430 –> 00:22:14.630
financial steps don’t work out because the inventor.

00:22:14.700 –> 00:22:18.140
often has very high aspirations of what they

00:22:18.140 –> 00:22:20.920
think the idea is worth, whereas the company’s

00:22:20.920 –> 00:22:23.460
looking at it from a commercial perspective and

00:22:23.460 –> 00:22:26.200
going, hang on a second, if we pay you £10 for

00:22:26.200 –> 00:22:28.180
every product that we’re selling, that’s our

00:22:28.180 –> 00:22:30.460
margin gone. We can’t increase the price of the

00:22:30.460 –> 00:22:31.720
customer for that. We’re just not going to sell

00:22:31.720 –> 00:22:34.480
the volume. It just doesn’t work. And that’s

00:22:34.480 –> 00:22:35.900
often with consumer products. I think it’s really

00:22:35.900 –> 00:22:38.640
hard. Being a lone innovator, like if you’ve

00:22:38.640 –> 00:22:40.500
got a great idea, first getting a prototype,

00:22:40.839 –> 00:22:42.799
getting a design prototype to manufacture, even

00:22:42.799 –> 00:22:44.640
to a point someone will listen to you, is really

00:22:44.640 –> 00:22:46.000
challenging. And then, obviously, the commercial

00:22:46.000 –> 00:22:48.119
realities of then getting it out there in volume

00:22:48.119 –> 00:22:51.720
is incredibly difficult. I mean, the contrast

00:22:51.720 –> 00:22:54.859
with that with GHD’s story, and GHD, it was a

00:22:54.859 –> 00:22:57.980
real surprise how revolutionary they were. Do

00:22:57.980 –> 00:23:00.380
you think they would have been successful if

00:23:00.380 –> 00:23:02.539
Rachel hadn’t existed, Friends hadn’t existed?

00:23:03.649 –> 00:23:06.250
would we all have would we have good headaches

00:23:06.250 –> 00:23:09.769
you know yeah and it it’s difficult to know isn’t

00:23:09.769 –> 00:23:12.549
it i think i think also the luck in that story

00:23:12.549 –> 00:23:14.640
is quite surprising as well the fact that they

00:23:14.640 –> 00:23:17.119
were hairdressers themselves. And then, you know,

00:23:17.119 –> 00:23:19.019
their friend bought a product from Korea for

00:23:19.019 –> 00:23:20.559
them to see, you know, the kind of the long,

00:23:20.619 –> 00:23:22.839
the chance of that happening is quite slim. And

00:23:22.839 –> 00:23:24.619
I guess that’s the luck of innovation. You’ve

00:23:24.619 –> 00:23:26.440
got to, you’ve got to be looking for things all

00:23:26.440 –> 00:23:28.759
the time to kind of find which one hits. Yeah,

00:23:28.799 –> 00:23:30.119
absolutely. And even earlier today, actually,

00:23:30.180 –> 00:23:32.299
I was talking to someone about a company who

00:23:32.299 –> 00:23:34.819
spends all their time on Kickstarter, finding

00:23:34.819 –> 00:23:37.440
other products and other innovations. They then

00:23:37.440 –> 00:23:39.640
take a note of the good ones that fit with their

00:23:39.640 –> 00:23:41.380
factories in China, that they can make that kind

00:23:41.380 –> 00:23:42.859
of stuff, wait and see whether it’s successful,

00:23:43.059 –> 00:23:44.819
if it’s successful. start ripping it off you

00:23:44.819 –> 00:23:48.920
know which is terrible my last question for this

00:23:48.920 –> 00:23:51.900
part is uh we’re both blokes you know we’re talking

00:23:51.900 –> 00:23:53.400
about hair straighteners which are mainly used

00:23:53.400 –> 00:23:56.740
by women how do you as a designer get under the

00:23:56.740 –> 00:23:59.240
skin of your consumer and customer like how do

00:23:59.240 –> 00:24:02.160
you know what’s a good hair strain or a product

00:24:02.160 –> 00:24:04.700
particularly for women or for you know a target

00:24:04.700 –> 00:24:06.970
that you’re not how do you do that That’s a really

00:24:06.970 –> 00:24:08.829
good question. And obviously kind of market research

00:24:08.829 –> 00:24:11.529
is key. What’s most interesting is I designed

00:24:11.529 –> 00:24:14.390
a bird box over the last year and launched it

00:24:14.390 –> 00:24:16.789
before Christmas. And that’s really difficult

00:24:16.789 –> 00:24:19.819
because you can’t ask the user. that uses the

00:24:19.819 –> 00:24:23.960
bird that doesn’t talk. And so then you’ve got

00:24:23.960 –> 00:24:25.940
to… I’ve done toddlers, they’re the same. Nightmare.

00:24:26.279 –> 00:24:29.140
Indeed. And some of that then comes down to comparative

00:24:29.140 –> 00:24:30.779
testing. So with the bird box, what I did was

00:24:30.779 –> 00:24:32.759
just design eight different bird boxes, put them

00:24:32.759 –> 00:24:35.259
up and see which ones got occupied. So there’s

00:24:35.259 –> 00:24:38.039
various ways of kind of achieving it. Let’s talk

00:24:38.039 –> 00:24:40.160
about the future of hair straighteners. I’d like

00:24:40.160 –> 00:24:42.559
to introduce Sam Fordley from Original Catapult

00:24:42.559 –> 00:24:44.539
Developments, who is an expert in the design

00:24:44.539 –> 00:24:46.980
of hair straighteners. And frankly, all things

00:24:46.980 –> 00:24:48.640
cool. Hello. Where are you calling from? from

00:24:48.640 –> 00:24:51.640
first of all uh bristol sam can you tell us a

00:24:51.640 –> 00:24:53.660
little bit about why why you’re an expert in

00:24:53.660 –> 00:24:55.019
hair straighteners and hair treatment give us

00:24:55.019 –> 00:24:57.259
give us a flavor sort of your experience so i

00:24:57.259 –> 00:25:00.980
spent seven years at dyson worked most of that

00:25:00.980 –> 00:25:04.059
in personal care so worked on the tail end of

00:25:04.059 –> 00:25:06.680
the supersonic the first supersonic then worked

00:25:06.680 –> 00:25:10.640
the majority uh so again bridged between new

00:25:10.640 –> 00:25:12.180
product innovation and new product development

00:25:12.180 –> 00:25:15.180
and then a little tiny bit in southeast asia

00:25:15.180 –> 00:25:18.099
with the later stages and stuff and i worked

00:25:18.099 –> 00:25:22.289
yeah mainly on the air app which is I sidestepped

00:25:22.289 –> 00:25:24.809
to hair straighteners and worked on the technology

00:25:24.809 –> 00:25:26.990
there, specifically in heating development. And

00:25:26.990 –> 00:25:31.829
then the Supersonic R, which came out last year,

00:25:31.849 –> 00:25:34.849
this year, I developed the heat technology for

00:25:34.849 –> 00:25:36.849
that. Obviously, don’t tell us any of Dyson’s

00:25:36.849 –> 00:25:38.190
secrets, but can you tell us a little bit more

00:25:38.190 –> 00:25:40.750
about the complexities around the heating and

00:25:40.750 –> 00:25:42.349
the airflow that comes with hair straighteners

00:25:42.349 –> 00:25:44.410
from an engineer’s point of view? So hair straighteners,

00:25:44.410 –> 00:25:47.329
they’ve got two kind of different ways in styling

00:25:47.329 –> 00:25:50.720
hair. from a heat perspective you’ve got conductive

00:25:50.720 –> 00:25:54.640
heat and convective heat and a hair straightener

00:25:54.640 –> 00:25:57.480
comes under the conductive heat transfer and

00:25:57.480 –> 00:25:59.960
the air wrap comes under the convective heat

00:25:59.960 –> 00:26:04.299
transfer where you’re using airflow to basically

00:26:04.299 –> 00:26:07.140
get the the airflow is the intermediate step

00:26:07.140 –> 00:26:10.579
between the heating element and the hair whereas

00:26:10.579 –> 00:26:12.099
a hair straightener you’re using the heating

00:26:12.099 –> 00:26:14.619
element directly against the hair and there’s

00:26:14.619 –> 00:26:16.119
a big temperature difference between the two

00:26:16.559 –> 00:26:19.420
that splits them out quite early on into your

00:26:19.420 –> 00:26:21.720
two different technologies both technologies

00:26:21.720 –> 00:26:24.539
you’re dealing with things like thermal mass

00:26:24.539 –> 00:26:27.859
and that’s how much energy it takes to heat something

00:26:27.859 –> 00:26:30.339
up isn’t it exactly that yeah sorry i’m being

00:26:30.339 –> 00:26:33.480
very uh no this is good this is good our listeners

00:26:33.480 –> 00:26:35.980
could be very technical or they could be you

00:26:35.980 –> 00:26:38.039
know very arty and we want to kind of tell them

00:26:38.039 –> 00:26:41.549
everything so yeah and both of them have Very

00:26:41.549 –> 00:26:44.710
distinct challenges, I think. The hair straightener,

00:26:44.769 –> 00:26:48.069
you’re constantly battling overheating things

00:26:48.069 –> 00:26:51.069
because the other thing with a hair straightener

00:26:51.069 –> 00:26:54.849
you have that is a significant issue is trying

00:26:54.849 –> 00:26:58.849
to get that heat in. Hair is a pretty bad conductor

00:26:58.849 –> 00:27:02.069
of heat. it’s very intuitive that certainly it

00:27:02.069 –> 00:27:04.710
takes a lot of energy to get it hot enough because

00:27:04.710 –> 00:27:06.609
it was about 180 degrees doesn’t it to kind of

00:27:06.609 –> 00:27:08.950
straighten it is that right yeah similar yeah

00:27:08.950 –> 00:27:11.529
those kind of temperatures but that is what you

00:27:11.529 –> 00:27:15.640
want a strand of hair to be at to kind of straighten

00:27:15.640 –> 00:27:18.160
it now if you’re straightening 10 strands of

00:27:18.160 –> 00:27:20.000
hair you can imagine there being a temperature

00:27:20.000 –> 00:27:23.880
gradient so like 180 at one side 180 on the other

00:27:23.880 –> 00:27:26.160
where you’ve got the two plates and then in the

00:27:26.160 –> 00:27:27.880
middle you’ve also got to want to get that to

00:27:27.880 –> 00:27:30.720
180 degrees but you don’t want to get the other

00:27:30.720 –> 00:27:32.619
hair above that because it starts to damage the

00:27:32.619 –> 00:27:35.150
hair so it’s like baking a cake isn’t it it’s

00:27:35.150 –> 00:27:37.109
like you want the middle to be cooked but you

00:27:37.109 –> 00:27:38.630
don’t want to burn the outside so absolutely

00:27:38.630 –> 00:27:41.210
yeah everything comes down to baking i found

00:27:41.210 –> 00:27:43.869
in my experience so yeah great analogy yeah yeah

00:27:43.869 –> 00:27:47.529
definitely and hair is is how much the difference

00:27:47.529 –> 00:27:49.430
is the type of hair you have you know if you’ve

00:27:49.430 –> 00:27:51.309
got locks like mine or long hair like yourself

00:27:51.309 –> 00:27:53.509
like is that very very different to if you’ve

00:27:53.509 –> 00:27:56.740
got i don’t know thin and nordic blonde hair

00:27:56.740 –> 00:27:59.000
versus say african kind of thick curly hair does

00:27:59.000 –> 00:28:02.019
that have a big impact on yeah definitely i mean

00:28:02.019 –> 00:28:04.339
the hair structure in itself is quite different

00:28:04.339 –> 00:28:07.819
to it across those different types of hair so

00:28:07.819 –> 00:28:10.299
going back to the different number of strands

00:28:10.299 –> 00:28:12.099
of hair you’ve got in a hair straightener well

00:28:12.099 –> 00:28:13.819
you’ve also got different thicknesses of hair

00:28:13.819 –> 00:28:17.319
within those strands as well so asian hair tends

00:28:17.319 –> 00:28:21.140
to have a much thicker core and then so you’re

00:28:21.140 –> 00:28:24.009
you’re it’s even harder to try and get the temperature

00:28:24.009 –> 00:28:26.769
into those cores compared to yeah afro hair or

00:28:26.769 –> 00:28:29.109
something like that so it strikes me that the

00:28:29.109 –> 00:28:31.269
technical challenges you have with hair feels

00:28:31.269 –> 00:28:33.289
very similar to the challenges we have with say

00:28:33.289 –> 00:28:36.269
melting of plastics or forming metal that’s all

00:28:36.269 –> 00:28:38.789
about heat transfer and and and how thick it

00:28:38.789 –> 00:28:41.150
is and the different material types yeah absolutely

00:28:41.150 –> 00:28:43.529
like you’re always trying to get as close to

00:28:43.529 –> 00:28:48.589
a set temperature as you can because any more

00:28:48.589 –> 00:28:51.470
damages it but any less it takes more time to

00:28:51.470 –> 00:28:53.339
get it there So you’re always trying, you’re

00:28:53.339 –> 00:28:56.519
battling speed against the time it takes to get

00:28:56.519 –> 00:28:58.819
to the core of it. You know, that’s why microwaves

00:28:58.819 –> 00:29:00.579
are so good, because microwaves heat from the

00:29:00.579 –> 00:29:02.940
centre. You don’t need to get things. So all

00:29:02.940 –> 00:29:04.960
of a sudden people… Could we use microwaves

00:29:04.960 –> 00:29:07.339
to heat? We talked in one of our episodes about

00:29:07.339 –> 00:29:09.960
lasers for can openers. Could we use microwaves

00:29:09.960 –> 00:29:13.519
to heat hair then? Microwaves can be pretty dangerous.

00:29:13.819 –> 00:29:16.339
I don’t see a reason why not. But yeah, it will

00:29:16.339 –> 00:29:19.460
be containing the radiation, I think, that would

00:29:19.460 –> 00:29:20.779
be the biggest challenge. I’m not volunteering

00:29:20.779 –> 00:29:24.099
to test that prototype. Like right next to your

00:29:24.099 –> 00:29:26.119
head, yeah. And I haven’t got the hair for it

00:29:26.119 –> 00:29:30.980
anyway. But nevertheless, even if I did. We can

00:29:30.980 –> 00:29:33.420
work this out. We’ll do the maths. Phil and I

00:29:33.420 –> 00:29:35.660
spoke earlier about how challenging it is to,

00:29:35.859 –> 00:29:38.000
we’re obviously guys trying to design a product

00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:40.980
for women. When you’re an engineer, how do you

00:29:40.980 –> 00:29:43.940
test? the hair straighteners work and the technologies

00:29:43.940 –> 00:29:46.000
and you know do you have thousands of volunteers

00:29:46.000 –> 00:29:48.880
how do you kind of do that kind of test oh yeah

00:29:48.880 –> 00:29:51.880
it’s it’s quite it’s definitely quite challenging

00:29:51.880 –> 00:29:54.140
you’ve got to balance doing the right number

00:29:54.140 –> 00:29:57.240
of tests against the right number of hair you’ve

00:29:57.240 –> 00:29:59.599
got to have a source of this hair as well i mean

00:29:59.599 –> 00:30:02.640
i don’t know if you you see uh requests from

00:30:02.640 –> 00:30:05.200
charities and stuff for cancer charities where

00:30:05.200 –> 00:30:07.700
yeah you know there’s a shortage of human hair

00:30:07.700 –> 00:30:10.859
to make wigs for people that are going through

00:30:10.859 –> 00:30:13.279
radiotherapy and things like that. So things

00:30:13.279 –> 00:30:15.380
like the Little Princess Trust where you cut

00:30:15.380 –> 00:30:17.039
your big hair off and you kind of donate it.

00:30:17.140 –> 00:30:19.380
Absolutely brilliant charity. So, you know, of

00:30:19.380 –> 00:30:20.799
all the places you want to send hair, you can

00:30:20.799 –> 00:30:23.079
want to send hair to a charity. But the thing

00:30:23.079 –> 00:30:24.839
is, is if you’re measuring things like damage,

00:30:24.880 –> 00:30:28.500
you can only use that hair sample once. because

00:30:28.500 –> 00:30:31.099
you then use it again and you’ve got no record

00:30:31.099 –> 00:30:33.859
really of how damaged it’s getting from a first

00:30:33.859 –> 00:30:35.799
pass. Sam, I just thought it’d be really good

00:30:35.799 –> 00:30:37.740
to touch on the project that you and I worked

00:30:37.740 –> 00:30:41.299
on previously to do with hair extensions. Obviously,

00:30:41.359 –> 00:30:43.200
we can’t share and wouldn’t share the confidential

00:30:43.200 –> 00:30:45.900
nature of the project. But obviously, during

00:30:45.900 –> 00:30:47.339
that project, we came up with the same problem,

00:30:47.420 –> 00:30:49.420
right? Trying to get hold of enough human hair

00:30:49.420 –> 00:30:51.819
and trying to get a product that works with a

00:30:51.819 –> 00:30:54.059
whole lot of different types of hair, that means

00:30:54.059 –> 00:30:58.220
you’re spending an absolute… fortune on on

00:30:58.220 –> 00:31:00.140
different types of human hair for the testing

00:31:00.140 –> 00:31:01.960
which just makes it really difficult to kind

00:31:01.960 –> 00:31:06.059
of innovate um in the space yeah definitely there’s

00:31:06.059 –> 00:31:09.259
like two points there i guess that that we’ve

00:31:09.259 –> 00:31:11.059
kind of touched on one is the damage side of

00:31:11.059 –> 00:31:13.980
stuff and actually crimping your hair can be

00:31:13.980 –> 00:31:15.960
quite damaging for your hair like it’s you know

00:31:15.960 –> 00:31:18.420
to keep something mechanically into your hair

00:31:18.420 –> 00:31:22.579
so who knows maybe the trends are Or maybe they’re

00:31:22.579 –> 00:31:24.839
splitting out into two distinct fields where

00:31:24.839 –> 00:31:27.039
you’ve got people who aren’t too bothered about

00:31:27.039 –> 00:31:30.519
damaging hair, but really want this, you know,

00:31:30.519 –> 00:31:32.440
a nice looking hair. It doesn’t matter whether

00:31:32.440 –> 00:31:35.920
it’s artificial or real or whatever. And people

00:31:35.920 –> 00:31:38.319
that do care about those things and damage. And

00:31:38.319 –> 00:31:39.940
another point which has come to me actually as

00:31:39.940 –> 00:31:42.539
well was, will we ever end up with like lab grown

00:31:42.539 –> 00:31:46.599
hair? Are people going to have scalps grown in

00:31:46.599 –> 00:31:48.359
a lab and go, oh yeah, you can have this artificial

00:31:48.359 –> 00:31:52.400
hair that’s completely human and just… But

00:31:52.400 –> 00:31:57.019
yeah, going back to the product itself and how

00:31:57.019 –> 00:31:59.339
you manipulate hair, I mean, it’s really, really

00:31:59.339 –> 00:32:02.880
tricky because you’ve got something that’s really

00:32:02.880 –> 00:32:04.819
long, you’ve got something that there’s lots

00:32:04.819 –> 00:32:07.440
of it. And then you’ve got it attached at one

00:32:07.440 –> 00:32:10.859
end. And you use and you attach it at one end.

00:32:11.140 –> 00:32:13.740
Whatever you’re doing, like even brushing, you

00:32:13.740 –> 00:32:17.079
start at the root and you brush down. And as

00:32:17.079 –> 00:32:19.059
you come down, all the knots, and they’re not

00:32:19.059 –> 00:32:22.099
even big knots at the time. It’s just interweaved

00:32:22.099 –> 00:32:24.859
hair because of the way it flows and acts among

00:32:24.859 –> 00:32:26.779
each other. Then you’ve got friction adding on

00:32:26.779 –> 00:32:28.140
it. And then you’re pulling it down and all those

00:32:28.140 –> 00:32:31.950
knots compress. you end up with a much bigger

00:32:31.950 –> 00:32:34.509
knot that didn’t you know that’s why you know

00:32:34.509 –> 00:32:35.990
you see hairdressers and they brush from the

00:32:35.990 –> 00:32:38.710
tips up before they start working into things

00:32:38.710 –> 00:32:41.150
and but that takes time yeah and people these

00:32:41.150 –> 00:32:43.589
days don’t have time to do those things and your

00:32:43.589 –> 00:32:46.470
marketing is always if you can do something quicker

00:32:46.470 –> 00:32:49.269
it is a better product yeah and i wonder whether

00:32:49.269 –> 00:32:50.710
that’s the other reason the hair straighteners

00:32:50.710 –> 00:32:53.250
might disappear is that actually potentially

00:32:53.250 –> 00:32:55.829
hair extensions are getting more popular they’re

00:32:55.829 –> 00:32:58.869
getting better quality and you can basically

00:32:58.869 –> 00:33:01.720
almost instantly transform yourself and have

00:33:01.720 –> 00:33:03.180
whatever hair you want right and you’re just

00:33:03.180 –> 00:33:06.759
buying it as an extension yeah i guess so but

00:33:06.759 –> 00:33:09.680
you all but hair’s always growing yeah so hair

00:33:09.680 –> 00:33:12.599
hair has to be you know your hair extension will

00:33:12.599 –> 00:33:15.019
end up down by your you know your shoulders if

00:33:15.019 –> 00:33:18.500
you just let it let it carry on i guess that’s

00:33:18.500 –> 00:33:20.539
also the current this is current fashion for

00:33:20.539 –> 00:33:23.240
so many different hairstyles so i think that

00:33:23.240 –> 00:33:26.230
the 90s was a very you had one hairstyle for

00:33:26.230 –> 00:33:28.309
a period of time. Whereas looking at the models,

00:33:28.369 –> 00:33:31.619
as I researched in Vogue for this podcast. The

00:33:31.619 –> 00:33:33.799
hair is being changed for every single photo

00:33:33.799 –> 00:33:36.599
shoot and people want that. And that needs different

00:33:36.599 –> 00:33:38.579
tools. That means the hair straightener disappears

00:33:38.579 –> 00:33:40.720
and we have curling straighteners and we have

00:33:40.720 –> 00:33:43.259
dryers and you have a plethora of different tools.

00:33:43.519 –> 00:33:45.440
I mean, it keeps us engineers busy, so it’s fine.

00:33:45.539 –> 00:33:48.019
But it’s definitely a different fashion. One

00:33:48.019 –> 00:33:51.099
of my favourite bits recently was when Blue Origin,

00:33:51.259 –> 00:33:53.700
the last Blue Origin mission, when all the women

00:33:53.700 –> 00:33:56.500
went into space, because they’d had their hair

00:33:56.500 –> 00:34:00.200
done for gravity. And then went into zero gravity

00:34:00.200 –> 00:34:03.000
and seeing how all their hair changed in zero

00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:06.240
gravity. And you could see who’d had more products

00:34:06.240 –> 00:34:08.820
put in their hair versus who hadn’t. Because

00:34:08.820 –> 00:34:11.280
obviously you see astronauts, which don’t really

00:34:11.280 –> 00:34:14.199
generally care about the way they look in space.

00:34:14.440 –> 00:34:17.460
And I think all six women all had straight hair

00:34:17.460 –> 00:34:19.599
for going up, which was a real surprise, given

00:34:19.599 –> 00:34:21.820
that they’ve got 11 minutes of zero gravity.

00:34:22.239 –> 00:34:25.280
It definitely did respond differently to most

00:34:25.280 –> 00:34:28.079
astronauts’ hair, though. I noticed that. I love

00:34:28.079 –> 00:34:29.820
the way you read the detail and you notice that

00:34:29.820 –> 00:34:32.880
kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, guys, what’s

00:34:32.880 –> 00:34:34.380
the future for head straighteners? So in our

00:34:34.380 –> 00:34:37.039
story, we had the big GHD moment in the 90s that

00:34:37.039 –> 00:34:38.739
transformed it with ceramic plates. We obviously

00:34:38.739 –> 00:34:41.039
have the air wraps and air flows with Dyson and

00:34:41.039 –> 00:34:42.840
loads of other brilliant technologies out there

00:34:42.840 –> 00:34:45.039
at the minute. What’s next? Where are we going?

00:34:46.079 –> 00:34:51.059
I’m not betting on the microwave idea. Oh, yeah,

00:34:51.119 –> 00:34:54.219
who knows? I mean, the thing is, as technology

00:34:54.219 –> 00:34:57.110
improves… things that we thought were inconceivable

00:34:57.110 –> 00:35:00.190
a hundred years ago well that people thought

00:35:00.190 –> 00:35:02.489
was inconceivable because of safety things and

00:35:02.489 –> 00:35:04.610
stuff like that like you know we’re probably

00:35:04.610 –> 00:35:07.309
going to have personal nuclear reactors at some

00:35:07.309 –> 00:35:11.329
point in the human history um because of the

00:35:11.329 –> 00:35:12.989
requirement for power generation and things like

00:35:12.989 –> 00:35:15.510
that I mean, a microwave seems like a pretty

00:35:15.510 –> 00:35:17.949
dangerous thing, but we still use one every day.

00:35:18.250 –> 00:35:20.590
And can you get battery -powered ones at the

00:35:20.590 –> 00:35:22.550
moment, or are they just too much power to be

00:35:22.550 –> 00:35:24.309
able to do a battery -powered hair straightener?

00:35:24.889 –> 00:35:26.369
Battery -powered straighteners. Yeah, you can

00:35:26.369 –> 00:35:28.110
get battery -powered straighteners. Okay. Because

00:35:28.110 –> 00:35:30.090
the thing with battery… So Dyson do some battery

00:35:30.090 –> 00:35:32.150
-powered straighteners. It’s a lot of power,

00:35:32.289 –> 00:35:33.769
but you’re actually only using it for a short

00:35:33.769 –> 00:35:35.969
time, so it’s not like you’re trying to have

00:35:35.969 –> 00:35:38.269
a massive battery to power it. Yeah, and yeah,

00:35:38.369 –> 00:35:40.409
like you say, it’s not even that much power,

00:35:40.449 –> 00:35:43.400
relatively, because it’s a small surface. area

00:35:43.400 –> 00:35:46.159
and yeah you’re not using it for very long and

00:35:46.159 –> 00:35:48.579
it’s conduction so it has a very good thermal

00:35:48.579 –> 00:35:51.260
transfer rate relative to a hair dryer where

00:35:51.260 –> 00:35:54.880
you are basically heating the room the majority

00:35:54.880 –> 00:35:56.719
of the energy goes into the room rather than

00:35:56.719 –> 00:35:58.820
the hair is that why is that why the wrapping

00:35:58.820 –> 00:36:01.400
and the curling and the self -drying ones are

00:36:01.400 –> 00:36:03.820
much much more efficient because you’ve got all

00:36:03.820 –> 00:36:05.320
your heat right next to your hair so you can

00:36:05.320 –> 00:36:06.860
dry your hair at the same time as straightening

00:36:06.860 –> 00:36:10.039
or curling or crimping yeah definitely and and

00:36:10.039 –> 00:36:12.760
the old 50s or 60s styles one where they go around

00:36:12.760 –> 00:36:15.239
your head yeah to try and like you know keep

00:36:15.239 –> 00:36:17.960
all that energy in yeah yeah exactly yeah um

00:36:17.960 –> 00:36:19.500
do you think they’re gonna come back then guys

00:36:19.500 –> 00:36:21.179
i mean are we gonna have uh are we gonna have

00:36:21.179 –> 00:36:24.920
the big buffon hair dries back or we yeah maybe

00:36:24.920 –> 00:36:27.380
yeah yeah i mean amy whitehouse tried her hardest

00:36:27.380 –> 00:36:30.579
didn’t she to get that she did she did i’m curious

00:36:30.579 –> 00:36:32.929
then do we do we think that hair straightens

00:36:32.929 –> 00:36:34.949
have a big future or do we think that they are

00:36:34.949 –> 00:36:38.050
going to be you know one of many many tools it

00:36:38.050 –> 00:36:41.309
feels like this generation of hairstyles are

00:36:41.309 –> 00:36:43.389
much more diverse the mullet’s back you’ve got

00:36:43.389 –> 00:36:46.210
the androgynous sort of florence plu look that

00:36:46.210 –> 00:36:48.730
zendaya with the kind of waves like there’s such

00:36:48.730 –> 00:36:51.590
a plethora of different hairstyles is the hair

00:36:51.590 –> 00:36:54.849
straighteners got a bright future or is it going

00:36:54.849 –> 00:36:57.250
to be you know the way of the the curling tongs

00:36:57.250 –> 00:37:01.309
i think it depends on damage really hair straighteners

00:37:01.309 –> 00:37:03.750
aren’t good for damage and i would say the way

00:37:03.750 –> 00:37:07.449
the market is going at the moment with everything

00:37:07.449 –> 00:37:11.150
with the environment with people’s health damage

00:37:11.150 –> 00:37:14.230
is a is a bad word and hair straighteners are

00:37:14.230 –> 00:37:17.550
aren’t great and in you know 20 years ago people

00:37:17.550 –> 00:37:20.110
didn’t care about damage i think in every aspect

00:37:20.110 –> 00:37:22.590
um i think the general trend is is people are

00:37:22.590 –> 00:37:24.980
a lot more conscious of the things they do around

00:37:24.980 –> 00:37:27.460
them these days and the effects that has on them

00:37:27.460 –> 00:37:30.739
you know hair science has taken off because of

00:37:30.739 –> 00:37:33.679
uh yeah the way the industry has pushed it so

00:37:33.679 –> 00:37:37.159
i think if the industry keeps trending towards

00:37:37.159 –> 00:37:41.360
no damage and things like that it’s a very hard

00:37:41.360 –> 00:37:43.880
landscape for the hair straightener to prevail

00:37:43.880 –> 00:37:46.480
in but yeah that could easily change who knows

00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:49.059
One of the reasons the GHCs and the later generation

00:37:49.059 –> 00:37:51.000
of products have been so successful was the change

00:37:51.000 –> 00:37:53.139
in materials, the use of ceramics, and then there’s

00:37:53.139 –> 00:37:56.219
very complicated rare earth metals now being

00:37:56.219 –> 00:37:58.619
used in hair straighteners. How important is

00:37:58.619 –> 00:38:02.079
the underlying science on materials, heat transfer,

00:38:02.199 –> 00:38:03.820
and obviously then you’ve talked about the hair,

00:38:03.900 –> 00:38:07.000
in the design of the product, in the engineering

00:38:07.000 –> 00:38:10.000
of the product? I guess it depends whether I

00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:14.320
see… I see design in two areas. You’ve got

00:38:14.320 –> 00:38:16.260
your functional design and your user requirement

00:38:16.260 –> 00:38:20.519
design, and they overlap a little bit, but sometimes

00:38:20.519 –> 00:38:23.920
they’re very separate. Like generally, like the

00:38:23.920 –> 00:38:26.659
Venn diagram, both circles are very big and they

00:38:26.659 –> 00:38:29.679
overlap a small amount in the middle. The improvement

00:38:29.679 –> 00:38:33.320
on material science and stuff can be a lot of

00:38:33.320 –> 00:38:37.000
just… Snake oil, I think. Don’t use snake oil

00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:40.019
on your hair. No. Yeah, definitely not. Definitely

00:38:40.019 –> 00:38:43.179
don’t. Use snake oil. Maybe it’s good. And actually,

00:38:43.239 –> 00:38:45.559
to be fair, what we have seen is a lot of the

00:38:45.559 –> 00:38:47.900
device manufacturing partners are now doing the

00:38:47.900 –> 00:38:51.019
topicals, the shampoo, and obviously the big

00:38:51.019 –> 00:38:53.420
P &G’s and Ulu’s who do the hair shampoo are

00:38:53.420 –> 00:38:55.539
trying to get into the device spaces as well.

00:38:55.579 –> 00:38:57.920
So there is this convergence between the two,

00:38:57.980 –> 00:38:59.420
and maybe hair strength needs to distribute.

00:38:59.579 –> 00:39:03.780
Snake oil is the future. Yeah, like a hair straightener

00:39:03.780 –> 00:39:07.739
with an applicator at the top of it that distributes

00:39:07.739 –> 00:39:11.039
snake colors as it’s working. Do you also think

00:39:11.039 –> 00:39:13.639
then that AI and the sensing systems are going

00:39:13.639 –> 00:39:14.840
to have a big importance? Because obviously,

00:39:15.059 –> 00:39:17.980
I mean, I know that if my hair is damp, it looks

00:39:17.980 –> 00:39:20.000
awful. I’ve not washed my hair this morning,

00:39:20.039 –> 00:39:21.960
so I wanted to look good for the podcast. So

00:39:21.960 –> 00:39:25.340
is there a lot about sensing the quality of the

00:39:25.340 –> 00:39:27.880
hair and therefore adjusting the straightener

00:39:27.880 –> 00:39:29.699
or the dryer’s performance as you’re running

00:39:29.699 –> 00:39:32.800
it through it? again it goes back to that damage

00:39:32.800 –> 00:39:35.500
thing if because a hair straightener is using

00:39:35.500 –> 00:39:39.000
physical contact you just you can’t get away

00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:42.019
from damaging the hair every time you interact

00:39:42.019 –> 00:39:44.300
with the hair particularly when you’re using

00:39:44.300 –> 00:39:46.960
extreme heat and hard surfaces and stuff like

00:39:46.960 –> 00:39:49.039
that it’s going to create some damage to some

00:39:49.039 –> 00:39:51.380
kind i mean not even hard surfaces soft surfaces

00:39:51.380 –> 00:39:53.699
any surface that comes into contact with that

00:39:53.699 –> 00:39:55.559
hair is going to give you some kind of damage

00:39:56.030 –> 00:39:57.969
And it feels like that’s the same problem that

00:39:57.969 –> 00:40:00.110
in our store you had in the 1900s with the very

00:40:00.110 –> 00:40:02.690
first curling tongs. I mean, these were uncontrolled

00:40:02.690 –> 00:40:04.849
temperatures, so they’re 200 degrees plus. But

00:40:04.849 –> 00:40:06.550
they were damaging people’s hair, so you couldn’t

00:40:06.550 –> 00:40:08.650
straighten very often. And although our products

00:40:08.650 –> 00:40:11.289
have got better, we still have this challenge

00:40:11.289 –> 00:40:13.150
that we’re trying to wrestle with as engineers.

00:40:13.789 –> 00:40:15.250
I don’t know why it’s ever going to go away,

00:40:15.269 –> 00:40:16.769
is it? At the end of the day, as soon as you

00:40:16.769 –> 00:40:19.409
apply heat to the hair, or Sam, as you say, as

00:40:19.409 –> 00:40:21.210
soon as you do anything to the hair, you’re automatically

00:40:21.210 –> 00:40:23.909
damaging it. It’s actually really quite fragile.

00:40:24.900 –> 00:40:28.800
yeah and so yeah trying to avoid that contact

00:40:28.800 –> 00:40:31.239
and avoid kind of too much going on with the

00:40:31.239 –> 00:40:34.400
hair at all is is pretty critical really and

00:40:34.400 –> 00:40:38.079
of course hair is dead for the majority of what

00:40:38.079 –> 00:40:40.760
we see of it you know there’s no regeneration

00:40:40.760 –> 00:40:43.159
of that hair after it leaves your head really

00:40:43.159 –> 00:40:46.440
and yeah like again different hair types people

00:40:46.440 –> 00:40:48.059
that are generally trying to straighten their

00:40:48.059 –> 00:40:50.420
hair have the sort of thinner type hair anyway

00:40:50.420 –> 00:40:54.960
so then that means that your relative So like

00:40:54.960 –> 00:40:57.039
the core of your hair is the strongest and the

00:40:57.039 –> 00:40:59.719
cuticle is what protects that. Well, the thinner

00:40:59.719 –> 00:41:02.539
your hair is, the smaller ratio core to cuticle

00:41:02.539 –> 00:41:07.519
you have. So it becomes even more challenging

00:41:07.519 –> 00:41:10.059
to keep that hair from being damaged. As long

00:41:10.059 –> 00:41:13.199
as the trends progress towards no damage and

00:41:13.199 –> 00:41:15.099
people are more conscious about the things they’re

00:41:15.099 –> 00:41:16.139
putting in their body and the things they’re

00:41:16.139 –> 00:41:19.519
doing to their bodies, it becomes a much harder

00:41:19.519 –> 00:41:23.480
case to push. but that could all change you know

00:41:23.480 –> 00:41:25.519
people might just stop caring we might all realize

00:41:25.519 –> 00:41:27.139
that we live in a simulation and people just

00:41:27.139 –> 00:41:33.340
go yeah i want to know sam you know hair straighteners

00:41:33.340 –> 00:41:34.820
as we know them today didn’t really get invented

00:41:34.820 –> 00:41:37.960
until like what 1990 um it doesn’t seem to be

00:41:37.960 –> 00:41:39.920
much iterative improvement for like the previous

00:41:39.920 –> 00:41:43.380
100 years And I was just wondering what your

00:41:43.380 –> 00:41:47.539
thoughts were on why that was and is the availability

00:41:47.539 –> 00:41:51.139
of enough human hair to test it on cost effectively

00:41:51.139 –> 00:41:54.159
one of the reasons maybe that there weren’t things

00:41:54.159 –> 00:41:56.739
coming out before then? I think it’s fashion

00:41:56.739 –> 00:42:00.039
more than anything that drive things. That and

00:42:00.039 –> 00:42:03.159
maybe, I don’t know, an availability or something

00:42:03.159 –> 00:42:07.780
like that. The avocado is a good one as a marketing

00:42:07.780 –> 00:42:10.480
thing. The avocado was originally marketed as

00:42:10.480 –> 00:42:13.619
a winter fruit. um which is why it’s in 1980s

00:42:13.619 –> 00:42:16.679
prawn cocktails at christmas now an avocado has

00:42:16.679 –> 00:42:19.000
been around for millennia you know like probably

00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:21.360
longer than that humans have been eating avocados

00:42:21.360 –> 00:42:23.639
for a long long time but it was it didn’t become

00:42:23.639 –> 00:42:25.860
fashionable until somebody was like this goes

00:42:25.860 –> 00:42:28.579
really well with salads and we brought it over

00:42:28.579 –> 00:42:30.480
to you know the southern hemisphere where we

00:42:30.480 –> 00:42:32.460
can start producing it in the right climate and

00:42:32.460 –> 00:42:34.440
things like that and all of a sudden it’s a hit

00:42:34.440 –> 00:42:38.369
and literally you know My little girl’s eating

00:42:38.369 –> 00:42:42.329
avocados and I probably hadn’t had an avocado

00:42:42.329 –> 00:42:45.789
until I was at least in double digits kind of

00:42:45.789 –> 00:42:49.030
thing. We keep doing podcasts on design and ended

00:42:49.030 –> 00:42:52.309
up talking about marketing. It feels like without

00:42:52.309 –> 00:42:55.309
Rachel from Friends in this case, without the

00:42:55.309 –> 00:42:57.570
channels in GHD, these things don’t work. And

00:42:57.570 –> 00:43:01.900
I think the avocado is a perfect example. So

00:43:01.900 –> 00:43:04.000
absolutely, if you have a great innovation idea,

00:43:04.179 –> 00:43:05.219
you need to be thinking about how you’re going

00:43:05.219 –> 00:43:06.199
to tell people about it and where it’s going

00:43:06.199 –> 00:43:08.539
to be sold. And reaching out to people can support

00:43:08.539 –> 00:43:10.579
you with that until it doesn’t happen. Yeah,

00:43:10.619 –> 00:43:13.139
so many amazing things have just fallen through

00:43:13.139 –> 00:43:16.300
the grates because there just hasn’t been a user

00:43:16.300 –> 00:43:18.480
case for them. Product development isn’t just

00:43:18.480 –> 00:43:19.960
about creating something amazing. It’s about

00:43:19.960 –> 00:43:23.500
having a legit business case. People have got

00:43:23.500 –> 00:43:25.920
to want to buy it because otherwise, you know,

00:43:25.940 –> 00:43:28.239
your product is literally just for you. Yeah,

00:43:28.260 –> 00:43:29.840
I think it’s also about the ability to message

00:43:29.840 –> 00:43:32.400
it, right? So as you say, the winter fruit is

00:43:32.400 –> 00:43:34.519
a really easy message to people to understand.

00:43:34.780 –> 00:43:37.900
It might not have been right, but so many times

00:43:37.900 –> 00:43:41.099
we see great ideas launch, but all the innovation

00:43:41.099 –> 00:43:43.480
is hidden. It’s not immediately obvious what

00:43:43.480 –> 00:43:46.409
the innovation is. And then you try and message

00:43:46.409 –> 00:43:48.449
that and you try and explain to people why this

00:43:48.449 –> 00:43:50.730
is worth a bit more, why it’s better or anything

00:43:50.730 –> 00:43:53.969
else. And if the messaging is too hard, too complicated,

00:43:54.170 –> 00:43:56.309
can’t be done in a single graphic, can’t be understood

00:43:56.309 –> 00:43:59.590
by someone in like half a second as a scanner

00:43:59.590 –> 00:44:02.889
shop shelf, then the thing falls flat. One of

00:44:02.889 –> 00:44:05.250
the best infant car seats on the market has got

00:44:05.250 –> 00:44:07.650
amazing internal technology to protect the baby’s

00:44:07.650 –> 00:44:09.630
ears and all sorts of other stuff. But you look

00:44:09.630 –> 00:44:11.769
at it, it looks like any other car seat. And

00:44:11.769 –> 00:44:13.789
you try and message that and it’s just too complex

00:44:13.789 –> 00:44:15.610
for most people to understand. And so you just

00:44:15.610 –> 00:44:17.449
end up with a more expensive car seat with a

00:44:17.449 –> 00:44:19.389
lower margin that people aren’t prepared to make

00:44:19.389 –> 00:44:22.409
any more money from. Is this why they were successful

00:44:22.409 –> 00:44:24.769
then? Because up until the 90s, you’re using

00:44:24.769 –> 00:44:27.269
the iron, and then suddenly you have these GHGs

00:44:27.269 –> 00:44:29.969
in your hand in a salon where you can see the

00:44:29.969 –> 00:44:31.869
impact straight away. Was it because that was

00:44:31.869 –> 00:44:34.369
such a simple message, I can look like Rachel,

00:44:34.429 –> 00:44:37.170
that you saw that fashion change? overnight i

00:44:37.170 –> 00:44:40.210
think certainly the fact it’s it’s a really visual

00:44:40.210 –> 00:44:43.610
quick message to understand use this product

00:44:43.610 –> 00:44:45.389
on your hair you get lovely straight hair you

00:44:45.389 –> 00:44:48.829
can see it working you know yeah absolutely and

00:44:48.829 –> 00:44:50.789
today the equivalent really is you know can you

00:44:50.789 –> 00:44:53.469
stick it into a tiktok video it does it yeah

00:44:53.469 –> 00:44:56.190
can you immediately understand that product we

00:44:56.190 –> 00:44:58.190
are not sticking with it we’re not doing a tiktok

00:44:58.190 –> 00:45:04.610
video okay Guys, thank you so much. I never knew

00:45:04.610 –> 00:45:06.150
this was going to be such a fantastic subject,

00:45:06.250 –> 00:45:08.269
but we’ve covered the history of the hair straightening

00:45:08.269 –> 00:45:11.429
from the colistrum all the way through Ada and

00:45:11.429 –> 00:45:13.429
her first invention. We talked about temperatures

00:45:13.429 –> 00:45:16.989
of hair and how thick and different core thicknesses

00:45:16.989 –> 00:45:18.789
have a massive impact. We’ve talked about frizzy

00:45:18.789 –> 00:45:20.170
hair. I mean, come on, guys, that’s brilliant.

00:45:20.789 –> 00:45:23.449
And then we talked about how important it is,

00:45:23.510 –> 00:45:25.730
the communication to get the message across,

00:45:25.909 –> 00:45:27.829
particularly for a fashion product like this.

00:45:27.969 –> 00:45:29.570
It feels like the hair straightening to have

00:45:29.570 –> 00:45:31.829
a bright future. It feels like we want to do

00:45:31.829 –> 00:45:33.869
something about damage, so it’s kind of the next

00:45:33.869 –> 00:45:36.309
thing. But I hope you’ve enjoyed our podcast.

00:45:36.630 –> 00:45:39.650
If you have, please like, subscribe, leave us

00:45:39.650 –> 00:45:42.670
reviews, buy hair straighteners, tell your friends,

00:45:42.889 –> 00:45:45.389
you know, and come back because we want to make

00:45:45.389 –> 00:45:48.030
more of them. Massive thanks to Sam Fordley from

00:45:48.030 –> 00:45:49.829
Original Catapult Developments and, of course,

00:45:49.829 –> 00:45:52.030
to Phil Staunton, our design expert from D2M.

00:45:52.170 –> 00:45:54.789
And join us again on our next episode of Why

00:45:54.789 –> 00:45:55.630
the Fork?